[MD] self: agent of action & thinker of thoughts

[MarshaV]

Although, this sense of being 'thinker of thoughts' and 'agent of action' seems to co-exist with thinking the self is autonomous...   




On Aug 17, 2011, at 7:22 AM, MarshaV wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi Horse,
> 
> I agree with you.  If there is no autonomous self, there is no autonomous self that has free will, and the talk of moral responsibility and moral laws seems out-of-place.    
> 
> 
> Marsha 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 7:09 AM, Horse wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks
>> 
>> On 17/08/2011 11:20, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>> Marsha, I don't call that rejection, but a warning as to the illusory
>>> nature of the autonomous individual self.
>> 
>> What is the difference between an 'autonomous individual self ' and an 'autonomous moral agent'? I'm having a hard time seeing any difference at all given what's been said so far.
>> 
>> So given my current inability to see where there is an effective difference in this discussion:
>> 
>> What is it then that has or expresses free will if not an 'autonomous individual self '.
>> And if this 'autonomous individual self ' is illusory then the conventional way of looking at free will is also illusory.
>> 
>> It seems to me that in all the discussions so far there has been a tendency to fall back to the idea that there is an autonomous moral agent ('autonomous individual self') who 'has' free will and expresses that free will by making free and independent moral choices.
>> This doesn't appear to be the case given many of Pirsigs quotes and references.
>> The overall impression that I get is that the GOF 'Moral Agent' is being shoe-horned into the MoQ where it doesn't quite fit!
>> 
>> Horse
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
>> — Frank Zappa
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html


 
___