[MD] Dog Dishes and Direct Experience

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Matt Kundert
<pirsigaffliction at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> DMB said:
> It seems to me that you are re-confusing the issue. I had been trying
> to explain the difference between "objects" as a practical belief AS
> OPPOSED [to] "objects" as they are conceived within scientific
> objectivity or subject-object metaphysics.
>
> Matt:
> I'm not sure how I've confused the issue so much as tried to discuss
> more complex issues then just the one you disentangled using Pirsig
> and the term as it used in developmental psychology.  (After all, it's
> unclear to me how "'objects' as a practical belief" isn't easily
> discoverable in the terms of my post.  So I'm not really sure what
> you have in mind as me "re-confusing" or what you might find
> disagreeable.)  I'm not using "object permanence" in any usual way.
> I apologize if you think that is unnecessarily confusing and
> detrimental to understanding.  However, I'm after more fish than
> just babies with toys or dogs with food.  It is difficult to get at these
> issues, and perhaps I am making it unnecessarily difficult by moving
> too quickly into them.

Dan:

I don't think Matt has confused the issues either... or re-confused
for that matter. I've read your post several times and I would like
another day or two with it before I make a response... hopefully
you're in no hurry. I agree these are difficult issues, easily glossed
over.

I know Dave seems to think I'm angry with him (I'll be happy to send
you a box of chocolates but it doesn't include a cuddle... sorry) but
I'm not... I get the impression like Matt that we're after bigger fish
by asking the kind of questions being asked. I'm not so much concerned
about practical matters or scientific objectivity or subject/object
metaphysics... I believe we are all pretty familiar with that.

I think it is a mistake however to suggest talking about reality
existing before we are born or after we die is any more complicated
than whether an "object" exists apart from the experience of said
object. I suggest one bleeds into the other and we can learn a great
deal on what the MOQ has to say regarding such questions. No one has
ever come back from the dead to report to us, but we all have walked
out of a room assuming that the room still exists...

Thank you,

Dan