[MD] Quality and the Higgs Field: An Analogy

[118]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Ham Priday <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:
[Ham in response to JA]
>
> There is no question that followers of Judeo-Christianity believe God is
> their uncreated source.  The question I have for the MoQists is: Is Quality
> your God?  I ask this because, epistemologically, there can be no quality
> without a conscious agent.  Which means that Pirsig's Quality cannot be the
> primary source, hence cannot be man's creator.

[Mark in response to Ham]
Wow Ham, this is a loaded question.  This could hijack the
conversation into who knows what, perhaps our definition of an
undefinable.  Now, you do ask for a personal understanding of God.
This could be that God is Cheese, which would be a valid answer since
it is personal.  If you are asking for a religion, then this is not
the right forum for that.

I would ask the question in another way (which does not have much
meaning either).  Does your God provide Quality, or does man create it
on his own?  This of course puts man at odds with your God, and stands
alone.  Epistemologically, there can be no conscious agent without
Quality.  Each nerve is qualitatively different, thus providing for a
spectrum of conscious appreciation.  Behind such appreciation is an
awareness which could also be termed the conscious agent.  But such an
agent cannot control the workings of the brain, only an attitude
towards such workings.  If we believe that all is some form of Good,
then who can say that it is not?
>
> From my perspective, it is the human individual who determines what is
> 'Good' and establishes a social morality to support this value.  Mark, on
> the other hand, rejects the need for a primary source and posits Quality as
> the creator and differentiator of existence.  I view this ontology as
> illogical and nihilistic, since it avoids the first principle of
> metaphysics: A primary Source is essential because 'Nothing can come from
> nothingness.'  It also slights the most significant power man possesses--the
> freedom to choose (and act on) his own values.

[Mark]
I still do not understand where you get nihilism.  Quality is the
antithesis of nihilism.  It is a primary source, there is no rejection
of such.  It is not nothingness, we experience it everyday.  When you
state that man determines what is Good, I have no problem with that
since it is man's interpretation.  For us to determine what is Good,
Good must already exist.  We cannot create Good, only identify it.
Take away one "O" and we are left with God.  So, God encompasses Good.
 Of course the extro "O" leaves room for evil.

Again I will have to ask you, where does this power of choice come
from, on a physical basis?  Do we control how each nerve fires?  Do we
do this intellectually?  I sure do not spend much time doing that.
>
[Ham]
> Aside from speculative conclusions based on physical theories such as Higgs
> Field, where do you stand on this metaphysical issue?

[Mark]
Your metaphysical issue is what is God?  That could take a while.  I
would say that using Meister Eckhart's mystical definition of God, my
metaphysical description of Quality would be very similar.  So in this
sense, Quality can be considered God.  Let me ask you, is the Absolute
Source God?  If not, where does your God fit in?
>
[Ham]
> I appreciate your interest in this discussion, J-A, and look forward to your
> contributions.

[Mark]
I get the sense that JA is way ahead of us on this.
>

Cheers,
Mark
>
>
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