[MD] Changes in 2011

[rapsncows at fastmail.fm]

Andre, (Horse),

are you talking about me?  When I talk about someone I try to make it
clear, and I also try to draw their attention to that fact by naming
them on the first line, so that they can see it in their email preview. 
I think this is courteous, and I think courtesy is reasonable, a sign of
quality.

more comments below:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 12:47:54 +0100, "Andre Broersen"
<andrebroersen at gmail.com> said:
> Andre:
> Same thread, completely different topic. Yes, the MD is in a bit of a 
> state and I welcome any 'moderation'. It is suggested by some on this 
> discuss that Horse's admonitions are some sort of plot forged by 'the 
> fits', the oldies, the conservatives, the squares, the 
> Pirsig-is-holy-don't-touch-him brigade to undermine and indeed sabotage 
> the contributions of the 'misfits' (quite an unfortunate term).

[Tim]
I haven't read every post, so if there is someone else bandying such
retarded language as 'fits' and 'misfits', I stand to be correct.  As
far as I know I am the only retard to do so.  I am being sincere here; I
think that this was a very unfortunate mistake I made.  I have
apologized to the 'fits' elsewhere.  It was a retarded generalization! 
When I think about it I can't find them.  I am sorry for this use. 
However, if you have taken personal offense you are partly to blame; I
did not specify who the 'fits' were.  Either way, I don't mean to levy
any of that against you, for my part, I am sorry about the term 'fits'.

Likewise, I am sorry for the term 'misfits'.  IF you have an adjective
that you think is appropriate though, please do share.

For my part, I have never suggested any plot.  Horse has choice over his
forum, and I have only ever appealed to his decision.


> 
> [Andre] Someone asked of dmb in a recent post what the purpose is of being here 
> and also questioning what it means to be 'reasonable'.

[Tim]
again, I think that I am the only one to have done so.

> 
> [Andre] My take on this is that we are here to discuss Robert Pirsig's MOQ and 
> no-one else's!

[Tim]
RMP himself has admitted that 'you never get it right', so I fail to see
how that AIM would be a reasonable one.

>[Andre] Reasonable discussion is a discussion based around his 
> metaphysics to work towards some sort of 'communal agreement' and 
> furthering our understanding of Pirsig's MOQ.

[Tim]
Ha Ha Ha!  I would like to see an RMP reference to back this!  The
reason for all existence - the universe, human life, etc. - is to come
to communal intellectual agreement of RMP's MoQ.  I guess once that
happens life will just be annulled!  Poof.  Maybe everthing would then
start over again, on the foregone concluded path towards RMP and his
MoQ.

It seems you have made a reified object of discussion of RMP's MoQ.  It
seems that this is the classical, SOM, ossified academy perspective.  It
seems to me that the Point of Quality is to get you out of such a trap. 
LIVE!  Dynamic Quality!  How is it *reasonable* in the light of DQ even
to have such intellectual discussions about metaphysics, Andre?  RMP has
even admitted that this is a degenerate thing!

>[Andre] Reasonable is also being 
> open to and accepting of contrary evidence and being persuaded by it 
> should it provide high quality explanatory power in relation to what we 
> are discussing here.

[Tim]
again, I think you have missed the point of Quality.  It's value was to
be able to get RMP out of the SOM box.  You are trying to get that box
back, "in relation to what we are discussing here", and you think that
it will be fine because you call it quality.

I while back I put in a big effort to excerpting a huge chunk of text. 
I analyzed it for you, as I see it, quite thoroughly.  You said you were
sick and would need some time to look over it and get back to me.  It
never came.  I'm not waiting though.


> 
> [Andre] The center of this MD is Pirsig's MOQ. Not anyone else's.

[Tim]
bunk!  the center of MD is Horse.

further, I think that RMP himself would tell you you've missed it all if
you want to make the center of anything 'Pirsig's MOQ' --- for RMP
himself, he aimed to make 'Quality' - pure and simple - the center.

intellectual reasonableness... discussion... nothing.  Quality.  then
maybe we can recover some intellectual reasonableness, and discussion. 
Just like RMP found that to get past the SOM he had to jump outside the
box, if you want to find Quality I suggest you jump outside the box of
your intellectual discussions.


> 
> [Andre] I fully support Horse in taking whatever action necessary to get the 
> discussion focused and relevant.

[Tim]
I fully respect Horse's freedom to do as he pleases with his forum.  my
support for him, however, will depend on my estimate of the quality of
his choice.  Fortunately for us, Horse...  Well, I feel very fortunate
that this is Horse's forum.  Thanks again Horse.

Tim
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