[MD] Dicks and limits

[rapsncows at fastmail.fm]

John,

first, I owe you a huge apology.  I don't know if it will be enough.  I
can only hope.  I think that the unknown is as open as ever.  If you
want to try to find the "right" place to put your wall in the unknown, I
think you are as free as ever to do so.  I merely think that "fair
justice" is the place to head.  My confidence in yesterday's suggestion
seems to have been unwarranted: it came before I cared enough, and
before I had enough trust in Jesus myself.  Just like 'Lila' I read the
'bible' quite critically.  Just like I have suggested earlier, I tried
to put myself into the shoes of all the characters therein.  Though I am
a jackass and a degenerate, it seems "the devil" found quality there
none-the-less.  So yes, I guess I did tell God and the Holy Spirit to
fuck off.  I didn't like there strict rules.  And I thought that they
had no warrant to be such dicks to "the devil".  Intelligence seems to
be a quality worth keeping.  If I am wrong... well... it has been my
choice.  If someone has to take the blame, please let it be me. 
However, it seems that this is what Jesus had to do.  That always seemed
unfair, so I could never accept.  However, I can see why he might have
made such a choice; and if he did this for us: he has all the gratitude
I can muster.  It seems that that is as fine a starting in the middle as
one could hope for!  I can't vouch for the veracity of the writings of
his apostles, of the transcribers, etc., but it is my hope that we can
all live in life, without having to submit to the authority of some
text.  Why should we have to hate anyone for ever?  If we can forgive
"the devil", which I hope we can; why can we not also forgive "God"? 
Why can't we acknowledge that we are limited to our proprietary
knowledge - be very thankful for it - and also love what we do not know,
what bounds us, and what permits us our freedom and individuality?  This
is my hope.  If it is unacceptable, I say "fuck off".

Anyway, something about mystical experience is warranted.  I don't know
shit.  I did my best.  I found no evil in the "tree of the knowledge of
good and evil": the worst I found was not-so-good.  It did get to the
point of being all-but-intolerable to me.  That was about five years ago
now.  If anyone thinks that this means that I am incapable of declaring
something shit: think again.  Now, I am quite sure that I would have
declared this "shit" if it were not for Jesus.  I don't "know" him
though!  Via faithe, mystical experience, I am willing to trust him.  I
don't see my life worth salvaging otherwise.  But, to be sure, I held
off with this conclusion as long as I could.  It doesn't seem to be a
problem.  Degrees of good is what I see.  I hope we can all do quite a
bit better.  But, to be sure, I think "better" must always remain
imperfect.  If you think you can bound it up tight, my suggestion is to
... well, first, humble yourself; second, love your neighbors (how can
someone without humility love well?); ...

If I am wrong, I am open to correction.  But I think that I will always
retain the right to say "fuck off"; I don't care to take your *shit*
anymore.  I think that this is the first moral right of the plebian:
"no!".  Also, I think that, though I flubbed up a lot, it was my
sincerity in this regard within the unknown that ...  If Justice is to
be possible, every neighbor must have the right to refrain from
injustice.  Injustice can only come by choice - so it seems.  This
darned fact that something must be must be accepted for what it's worth.
 Though at can get to seeming real unfair at times, I don't know
anything about "evil".  If I must accept evil, even as an "other",
please leave me out.

Anyway: let me respond to you:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:46:38 -0800, "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
said:
> Tim,
> 
> First, I do agree that "thank you has limits".  That is true.  Second
> thing
> however...
> 
> >
> > > [John] I lay away and think about MD too.
> >
> > [Tim] I wasn't thinking about MD!  I was thinking about people.
> 
> 

[John]
> MD is people.  What else could it be?

[Tim]
I see MD as a *little* "essence" of people.


[John]
> Well, to be perfectly frank, I'm not sure what you mean.

[Tim]
feeeeewwwwwww.  I think I was justified to caution you then, about
turning around.

>[John]  I just did make a
> major turn-around in dropping my urge to discuss Royce and Absolute
> Idealism.

[Tim]
I thought the discussion was pretty much over.  I'm done with it.  I
mean, I don't care to try to effify the ineffible ad infinitum.  I am
real surprised I made it this long here!  I was on the verge of dropping
it numerous times.  But nowhere else in the world did I see people
committed enough to building a solid foundation for Fair Justice.  I
didn't want to give up.  I didn't want miss the opportunity.

Anyway, I thought we had decided that the only problem with absolute
idealism is that we had to insert a healthy portion of the unknown.  If
I had wanted to know Jesus, it seems I never could have anyway: he is
other than me.  I don't know where else there might be to aim.  Fair
Justice for all.  Of course, if you, or anyone else, has a better idea,
I'll listen.  But I don't know how much I can tolerate living in the
mystical unknown.  I want out.  I'd like to be able to leave a fair
handling of the physics to a robot.



[John]
> Especially since, on this farm where all animals are equal, some are
> admittedly more equal than others.

[Tim]
Pardon?  You lost me? I don't by into the notion of equality at all.  I
buy into fair.  It seems to me, strictly speaking, 1=1 is ridiculous; it
works conventionally, to do stuff like build houses, and bridges, and
space ships, but I think that either 1 is, or one is not one.  I have a
symbol that I prefer to the "=" sign, but my computer doesn't register
it yet, so maybe I have played fast and loose.  But I don't really think
I did that either because "=" usual was a substitute for "is".  Anyway,
if I flubbed up, I hope it is okay.  Anyway, the sign looks something
like this "=x=".  There is another thing too.  While numbers seem to be
essential, it seems to me that they can't exist without words.  We might
drop the words for ease, but they are always really there, somewhere, or
else you talking about "nothing".

>[John]  Intellectually, I haven't changed my
> mind, but socially, with no concurrence I have to say, "who am I, to blow
> against the wind?"

[Tim]
perfectly right.  I am hoping for concurrence.  If not, I will desist
blowing against the wind too.


> [John]
> I must say though, I'm extremely glad I did try.

[Tim]
Thank You!


[John]  Whereas Phaedrus started his investigations by
> asking "what is good", Royce began from an extreme skepticism that asks
> "what is error?"

[Tim]
Marsha has asked: why care?  I think that I am in her camp on this one.


I have cut the rest for the moment:
Tim
-- 
  
  rapsncows at fastmail.fm

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software
                          or over the web