[MD] The MoQ and Politics?

Wed Jan 19 13:26:50 PST 2011

DMB , working on denigrated passions, and divine rationality.

Why? Because somewhere back in ancient Greece the Good was subordinated to
the True, because the passions were denigrated and rationality was made
divine. The reasons are historical and evolutionary.(end)

Pirsig in ZAM, quoted by David.

"In the past our common universe of reason has been in the process of
escaping, rejecting the romantic, irrational world of prehistoric man. It's
been necessary since before the time of Socrates to reject the passions, the
emotions, in order to free the rational mind for an understanding of
nature's order which was as yet unknown. Now it's time to further an
understanding of nature's order by reassimilating those passions which were
originally fled from. The passions, the emotions, the affective domain of
man's consciousness, are a part of nature's order too. The central part. At
present we're snowed under with an irrational expansion of blind
data-gathering in the sciences because there's no rational format for any
understanding of scientific creativity. At present we are also snowed under
with a lot of stylishness in the arts ... thin art ... because there's very
little assimilation or extension into underlying form. We have artists with
no scientific knowledge and scientists with no artistic knowledge and both
with no spiritual sense of gravity at all, and the result is not just bad,
it is ghastly. The time for real reunification of art and technology is
really long overdue." (ZAMM p. 294)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrie.
I think i mentioned earlier that my wife is originating from Turkey.
The Place is Emirdag, (mountain called Emir), and the place is quite
isolated
by altitude and remote distances.The place is located exactly on the borders
of
the geographical split that is running along with the on-grafted
romantic-classic
split as well.
Moreover , the wars and empire's that shredded the historical past of the
area
are still there as remnants of the past, the languages are still there, the
split/slit
romantic/classic is still physikally present.
The populations there are very persistant in their traditions,and traditions
are never rational, so persistance in this case has a non-rationality base.

The place is as cold as "Yellowstone" , in America, if i have to make a
comparision, but a lot more windy,about he same altitude's in the
surroundings
A can of engineoil placed outside, will freeze to a brick within hours,
during winter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirda%C4%9F         Location

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirda%C4%9F_%28stad%29      loc, NL wiki

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Emirdag_erenoglu_sokak.jpg
Birthouse.

The next is Emirdag, (BLG wiki, same place, with some examplefoto's),
But note, the house in the link that accompany's this page, is the
birthhouse of
my wife, and the family still owns it,it is still there, but empty,and
decaying fast
I visited the house several times.

Importantly, to frame it in context, the location needs to be re-observed in
an archeological/historical setting to see the demarcationline of the
romantic classic split, running over the location.

To see a part of this demarcationline, i included some other links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece     for the historical settings.
(pay attention to Proto-etc, the subheader philosophy,pragmatic epigraphy
and neo-classisim)

on this page, sublink,
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diadochen1.png

this link shows a map of the kingdom of Lysimachus , dark brown, and the
opposite empire seleukus/nicator. Light brown.
The division between those, on the border between them , shows that Emirdag
lays within the sighting of the boundary, also representing the
romantic-classic split.(on this location) Emirdag is still romantic
thinking, completely. due to these
historical geographical settings in the past.

If you google-earth  Emirdag after reviewing this, you can see the location
is a match for the split Lysimachus/seleukis, on the border!

Amoreon is very near to this place,5 miles i guess,its an excavationplace

http://www.amoriumexcavations.org/index.htm

I still have some picture's of my own ,taken in Amoreon,if you like to see
them , David, i will gladly upload them to you.I also have pictures of
Troje(Truva)
Ephesos,many of these site's..

Anyway, have to sleep now,but all of this shows how sharp Pirsig was on top
of the split.I found no mistakes in his work.

Greetzz, Adrie

2011/1/17 david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>

>
> John said:
> Since we all know what Quality is; since we all have access to the
> apprehension of this fundamental guide, why is there anything wrong?
>
> Why? Because somewhere back in ancient Greece the Good was subordinated to
> the True, because the passions were denigrated and rationality was made
> divine. The reasons are historical and evolutionary.
>
> "In the past our common universe of reason has been in the process of
> escaping, rejecting the romantic, irrational world of prehistoric man. It's
> been necessary since before the time of Socrates to reject the passions, the
> emotions, in order to free the rational mind for an understanding of
> nature's order which was as yet unknown. Now it's time to further an
> understanding of nature's order by reassimilating those passions which were
> originally fled from. The passions, the emotions, the affective domain of
> man's consciousness, are a part of nature's order too. The central part. At
> present we're snowed under with an irrational expansion of blind
> data-gathering in the sciences because there's no rational format for any
> understanding of scientific creativity. At present we are also snowed under
> with a lot of stylishness in the arts ... thin art ... because there's very
> little assimilation or extension into underlying form. We have artists with
> no scientific knowledge and scientists with no artistic knowledge and both
> with no spiritual sense of gravity at all, and the result is not just bad,
> it is ghastly. The time for real reunification of art and technology is
> really long overdue." (ZAMM p. 294)
>
> “…, the one fundamental quarrel Empiricism has with Absolutism is over this
> repudiation by Absolutism of the personal and aesthetic factor in the
> construction of philosophy. That we all of us have feelings, Empiricism
> feels quite sure. That they may be as prophetic and anticipatory of as
> anything else we have, and some of them more so than others, can not
> possibly be denied. But what hope is there if squaring and settling opinions
> unless Absolutism will old parley on this common ground; and will admit that
> all philosophies are hypotheses, to which all our faculties, emotional as
> well as logical help us, and the truest of which will at the final
> integration of things be found in possession of the men whose faculties on
> the whole had the best diving power? (William James, “Absolutism and
> Empiricism” p.96)
>
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