[MD] Free Will

[Steven Peterson]

Hi dmb,


> Steve replied:
> ...Why would you want to praise or condemn someone for their view on free will/determinism?  First of all, that would be trying to apply a social level tool of control over someone's intellectual patterns. That's an MOQ no-no. The intellectual concern is whether it is true or false.
>
> dmb says:
> Unlike you, I do not limit morals or moral responsibility to the social level. You don't seem to realize that the determinism you're advocating a moral nightmare wherein Hitler is no more morally culpable than a tornado. It's nihilism. Unlike the MOQ, which says static patterns are moral all the way down, you're saying there are no values at all.

Steve:
Unlike me? Why would you think that I limit morals to the social
level? All I said is that praise and blame are social patterns, ad
they are. When I said that the intellectual concern is true/false, I
follow the MOQ in thinking that that too is a moral concern. It's just
a different level, so a different sort of moral concern.


> Steve said:
> ... Our system depends on a notion of causality. What gets added to this system with the common sense notion of free will is the bad idea of justice as punishment.
>
> dmb says:
> Well, no. Our notions of justice may or may not lead to punishment. Holding a person responsible for their actions doesn't necessarily lead to blood lust or revenge. But moral responsibility is necessarily precluded by denying free will.


Steve:
I've explained that moral responsibility is a completely separate
issue from free will, but you chose not to respond to those bits.

dmb:
There is no logical connection between compassion and determinism
either. I find your reasoning is very far from airtight. In fact,
you're already sunk and sitting at the bottom of the sea.


Steve:
If my reasoning is flawed, please point out where I went wrong. You
should know that I don't hold your unsubstantiated opinions in any
regard.

dmb:
> I don't see any reason why I should reply to your childish name-calling, so most of your reply was deleted. If there was an actual point in there, then feel free to repeat it, hopefully in grown-up language.

Steve:
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't even accuse you of not
being a grown up as you just did to me?