[MD] The Quality of Free Will

[david buchanan]

Khoo Hock Aun said:
Just as the Buddha did, and as Pirsig realised it to, it is equally dangerous to take either extreme of having "No Self" and "Self"  while we still inhabit our illusory impermanent selves. The former leads to unproductive nihilism and the kind of ascetism that the the pre-enlightened Buddha pursued. Forcing the end of self too soon, before one is ready for an "unconditioned" existence, leads to absurd results. On the other hand, pursuing the latter leads to self-aggrandisement and its preservation at all costs, the kind that we see placed in the world today by the Western Church of Reason.   What seems to be missing from this discussion, is the role of moderation in considering either extreme. The text refers to this as taking the middle path. Buddhas aside, to those of us who still inhabit selves, need to refer to the self, not the permanent cartesian, essential notion of it, but if you will, the aggregated "complex ecology of static patterns" that free of conditioning, can and still choose among the choices that is before it.


dmb says:
Good to hear from you. Thanks for adding some much needed clarity and calm.
Yes, the middle way. I think you're right. The MOQ avoids the extremes of holding to an eternal, independent self on the one hand and no self at all on the other. The MOQ avoids both essentialism and nihilism. It avoids both hedonism and asceticism. To the extent that this idea is discussed here at all, it's almost always misconstrued and presented in the form of a series of confusing and contradictory equivocations. Thanks for the fresh air. 

Why does the self have to be eternal, essential or ultimately real anyway? And just because it isn't, why jump to the conclusion that one's existence is unimportant or illusory or inherently false? 

Isn't the middle way a subtle and profound position rather than a wishy-washy, flip-flopping mess? I think so. And that's exactly the source of my complaints about Marsha's posts. She has been abusing and distorting the subtle beauty of this idea and now it so tainted that one can hardly even begin to discuss without first undoing all the damage.