[MD] The Quality of Free Will

[MarshaV]

Hi Dave,

Here is the definition of static patterns of value I've put together.  

Static patterns of value are processes: impermanent, interdependent,
ever-changing. (Not independent objects, subjects or things-in-themselves.)  
Overlapping, interconnected, ever-changing processes that pragmatically
tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable pattern.   

Thanks, 


Marsha 





On Jul 18, 2011, at 1:49 PM, David Thomas wrote:

> On 7/18/11 12:04 PM, "David Buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> dmb says:
>> A collection of ever-changing static patterns?
>> 
>> Will somebody please explain to Marsha why this statement is logically
>> incoherent?
>> 
>> Will somebody please explain that "static" is the opposite of "ever-changing"?
>> 
>> Will somebody please explain that there is better word for ever-changing, one
>> that is opposed to "static" within the MOQ and that this word is "dynamic".
>> 
>> Will somebody please explain exactly how and why her claim is nonsense?
>> 
>> She won't hear it from me but she really, really, really needs to hear from
>> somebody.
> 
> Dave
> The problem of course is the source material she is using. Pirsig chose
> static and dynamic for his primary division of quality. I have long
> maintained that he did this for rhetorical reasons not metaphysical ones.
> Alternately he uses the term "stable" patterns as though it is the same as
> "static" patterns. Metaphysically it is not.
> 
> sta·ble 1  (stbl)
> adj. sta·bler, sta·blest
> 1.
> a. Resistant to change of position or condition; not easily moved or
> disturbed: a house built on stable ground; a stable platform.
> b. Not subject to sudden or extreme change or fluctuation: a stable economy;
> a stable currency.
> c. Maintaining equilibrium; self-restoring: a stable aircraft.
> 2. Enduring or permanent: a stable peace.
> 3.
> a. Consistently dependable; steadfast of purpose.
> b. Not subject to mental illness or irrationality: a stable personality.
> 4. Physics Having no known mode of decay; indefinitely long-lived. Used of
> atomic particles.
> 5. Chemistry Not easily decomposed or otherwise modified chemically.
> 
> All these definitions of "stable" suggest that change is possible. "Static"
> on the other hand implies it is not.  With the possible exception of
> religious and philosophical dogma I can't recall every experiencing a static
> pattern. As I look out my window now the major elements I experience are
> trees, lake, and sky. There are clouds in the sky. They are stable enough
> that I can visually identify them and see that though they are constantly
> changing shape and moving to the northwest they are still what almost all of
> us would agree are "clouds". The same for the "lake", "trees" etc. etc.
> 
> So if Marsha merely substituted "stable" for "static" to correct for
> Pirsig's error in her definition....
> 
>> Within MoQ self as a a collection of ever-changing, interrelated, impermanent,
>> [STABLE] patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value in a
>> field of Dynamic Quality,......
> 
> Are you still dogmatically opposed to it?
> 
> My guess is yes.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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