[MD] Free Will

[John Carl]

Hi Steve,

Some month ago you said:

On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Steven Peterson
<peterson.steve at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I'm packing for a short trip, but quickly...
>
> You concede that free will is redundant, but below in response to my
> claim that we don't choose our values but rather we ARE our values you
> said that "Choice and valuing are synonomous.  Is what I've been
> saying.
>

John:

Ah.  Then it's all cleared up then.  yay.  We fundamentally agree.


Steve:


> What we choose is what we value.  What we value is what we
> choose.  Individuality IS our choice, so thus it could be said that we
> don't make choices, we ARE our choices.  That's just as true and
> points to the fundamentalness of choice as well." If, as you say, we
> ARE our choices and values and choices are, as you say, synonymous,
> that it sounds like you are ready to agree that we ARE our values. But
> then, saying "we choose our values" seems empty.


John:

Well, only because it's so obvious.  But that's no refutation, fer sure.

Steve:


> We choose our
> choices? Sure, but the free will question is about HOW choices are
> made.
>
>
John:

Is it?  I thought it was *whether* choice was made or even possible.
Whether it's possible to choose, to freely decide.  To choose between given
alternatives is the only freedom I can imagine and yet there are those who
make choices beyond the merely given, and they are geniuses and source of DQ
to our species.

But I believe individuality is itself a choice, and thus we don't make
choices, choices make us.  And yes, I think that is the exact opposite of
determinism.  I guess I have no real bone to pick with you.  It's that Sam
Harris guy I find ridiculous.  Mebbe I should write to him instead of
Hawking.  So many idiots, so little time...

John