[MD] The Quality of Free Will

[MarshaV]

Hi Ham,

On Jul 27, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Ham Priday wrote:

> 
> Dear Marsha --
> 
> 
> When you posted this at noon yesterday, I was recovering from a short illness and did not feel up to commenting on this Buddhist instruction.  I'm much better today, so I'll give it a try.

I am happy to hear you are feeling better, and sorry you were ill.   


> 
>> Hello again Ham,
>> 
>> If you will forgive me for quoting from Miri Albahari's book, here's
>> the crux of the issue: "... Awareness purports to exist as a witnessing
>> presence that is unified, unbroken and yet elusive to direct observation.
>> As something whose phenomenology purports to be unborrowed from
>> objects of consciousness, awareness, if it exists, must exist as _
>> completely unconstructed_ by the content of any perspectivally ownable
>> objects such as thoughts, emotions or perceptions.  If _apparent_
>> awareness, perhaps by virtue of one or more of its defining features
>> (that form part of its content or 'aboutness'), turned out to owe its
>> existence to such object-content rather than to (unconstructed) _
>> awareness itself_, then that would render awareness constructed and
>> illusory and hence lacking in independent reality..."
>>      (Albahari, Miri, 'The Two-tiered Illusion of Self', P.162)
>>  
>> 
>> There!
> 
> Ham:
> "There!", as in take that?  

Marsha:
No, no, no.  I meant there as in "There!  This is the definition/investigation I wanted to share."  It was then fresh in my mind.  


> Ham:
> Just what am I to make of this analysis, Marsha, starting with "Awareness purports to exist" -- "something whose phenomenology purports to be unborrowed from objects"?
> I would say first that awareness doesn't "purport" anything; it makes no claim or intention on objective being and has no need to be "constructed". It's your intellect that does the constructing and demands "object-content". What Albahari seems to be saying in his conclusion is that awareness IS an independent reality BECAUSE it's not formed or constructed from objective beingness.

Marsha:
Not constructed, so not illusion.   But not bounded as an inherently existing self either.   


> Ham:
> So there!

Marsha:
Aaaaw.  And I was thinking maybe this was something we could share as common ground.  


>> Marsha:
>> I have mentioned before that I can identify with some of your statements
>> about 'self', mainly because of this witnessing capacity.  To me, freedom,
>> too, is in this kind of presence: witnessing/mindfulness. I cannot identify the
>> flow of "thoughts, emotions or perceptions" with an independent self, but
>> what of this witnessing experience? What of this intimate awareness? -
>> But this book is dense and complex, with lots to think about, and I will
>> need to read it again, but it seems to be on the right trail.
> 
> Ham:
> The notion that there is no self is an artificially-contrived theory that serves two purposes:
> 
> 1)  For the objective empiricist, it supports the view that the conscious mind is a product of biological evolution and is entirely accounted for by electro-chemical changes in the brain and nervous system.
> 
> 2)  For the Zen mystic (or pantheist) who is persuaded that reality can have no other form that Oneness, it avoids the paradox of "otherness" that a subjective agent creates.
> 
> Quite frankly, Marsha, it is my opinion that you have adopted this principle from one or both of the above arguments, and that you have lately come to suspect that a universe with no sensible agent is meaningless.  If, I'm right, you are beginning to think for yourself, which will ultimately resolve your quandary.


Marsha:
No, I have not adopted a theory.  More like I'm looking for a way to make sense and explain of my experience.  On investigation I can find no autonomous self.  I experience only a broken stream of pattern pieces.  My 'sense of self' seems but a pattern too, not real.  But what of this awareness. This is a little more tricky.  -  The book is difficult, and I will need to give it a second reading to make better sense of it and how it might fit within the MoQ.   


>> I hope you are well.
> 
> This concern for my health was prescient ...or maybe you're clairvoyent!  In fact, I was suffering abdominal pain and shortness of breath on Sunday morning.  When the common remedies didn't work, and my condition grew worse, my wife drove me to the local hospital ER where after submitting to x-rays, cardiac scans, and other tests, I was diagnosed with an impacted colon. They registered me in a hospital room where I spent a sleepless night attached to an IV and saturated with Miralax while vainly trying to find a comfortable position.  Only after consuming some solid food (oatmeal) Monday morning did the symptoms ease enough to allow me to breathe more freely, and with Rose's help (she volunteers at this hospital) I was able to negotiate a discharge that afternoon.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for your concern, Marsha.  I hope I've put the Self in a more sensible framework than your author did.

I missed you Ham.  


> 
> Best wishes,
> Ham



Marsha 
 
___