[MD] The other side of Value

[Joseph Maurer]

On 6/8/11 8:32 PM, "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> What you present does not make much sense to me.
> 
Hi Mark,

I'm sorry my writing is opaque.

> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hi Ham,
>> 
>> Writing it down does not make it so.  The individual is indefinable.  You
>> can ascribe any qualities you want to an individual.  A Judge will decide
>> the reality of his actions.
> 
> [Mark]
> Yes, an individual is defined by others.  Often there are a limited
> number of qualities that you can ascribe to an individual.  Which
> Judge are you speaking of?  Is this God?  Only God can be the Judge of
> his actions and their reality.

Individual actions can be defined by others.  The individual with free will
defines himself, although oftentimes he can be misunderstood as well as
being dead wrong.

>> 
>> Unfortunately in a metaphysics based in Essence, the boundary between
>> individuals is indefinable since all is Essence and morality has no
>> metaphysical foundation, only a political foundation.
> 
> [Mark]
> Yes, indefinable, I agree.  Essence allows us to create our own
> morality, this is what Ham means by negation and value judgement
> coming from the individual.  I do not necessarily agree with this as
> he knows.  Just as Essence is amoral, it is also apolitical.
> 
> I am just clarifying your position for those interested.  I have
> followed it closely.
> 
While I have free will, I am not too fond of creating my own morality.
There are a lot of Heroes to do that.

> Cheers,
> Mark

Cheers
Joe

>> 
>> In a metaphysics based on an order in Existence, evolution is metaphysical
>> reality.  Explaining how SOM is tied to essence and cannot realize
>> individuality in evolutionary levels is a value of the MOQ website.
> 
> [Mark]
> If I remember, "evolution is the presentation of levels" is what you
> stated.  It is not metaphysical reality, it is a presentation of such.
> 
> I do not think that tying SOM to essence is a value of the MoQ
> website.  In fact I believe that someone was kicked out to the forum
> for suggesting such a thing.
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/6/11 10:01 PM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> My answer is that the value-sensible Self -- the measure of all things --
>>> divides good and evil.  If the Absolute Essence is "perfect", as I suggested
>>> to Ron, then morality is a relational concept that does not apply to the
>>> "Source side" of Value.  Only when Value is differentiated by a preferential
>>> agent, as in existence, do the issues of virtue vs. vice, beauty vs.
>>> grossness, excellence vs. mediocrity, justice vs. injustice, and all other
>>> contradictions appear.
>> 
>> 
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html