[MD] Words and concepts

[MarshaV]

Go ahead, Ron, present a hypothesis that uses Pirsig's 
notion of Quality to illuminate James's notion of pure 
experience.  I'm sure I will find it very interesting.  Or 
maybe not.  



On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:55 AM, X Acto wrote:

> Then perhaps the discussion is not for you, just because it was not intended to
> be within a philosophical tradition does not mean that it is'nt a part of that 
> tradition.
> of thought.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 9:58:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Words and concepts
> 
> 
> Ron,
> 
> I prefer better 'pragmatic' with a small p.  
> 
> "The Metaphysics of Quality is not intended to be within any philosophic 
> tradition, although obviously it was not written in a vacuum. My first awareness 
> that it resembled James' work came from a magazine review long after “Zen and 
> the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” was published. The Metaphysics of Quality's 
> central idea that the world is nothing but value is not part of any philosophic 
> tradition that I know of. I have proposed it because it seems to me that when 
> you look into it carefully it makes more sense than all the other things the 
> world is supposed to be composed of. One particular strength lies in its 
> applicability to quantum physics, where substance has been dismissed but nothing 
> except arcane mathematical formulae has really replaced it." 
> 
> 
>     (A brief summary of the Metaphysics of Quality, October 2005)  
> 
> 
> Marsha  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:30 AM, X Acto wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Definitions are the FOUNDATION of reason. You can't reason without them." 
>> (Emphasis is Pirsig's. ZAMM, page 214.)
>> 
>> 
>> "A metaphysics must be divisible, definable and knowable, or there isn't any 
>> metaphysics." (Pirsig in Lila, page 64.)                        
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ron:
>> Note to interested contributer:
>> This response is intended to provoke a dialog on the topic of clarity within 
>> our 
>> 
>> understanding
>> of what these quotes mean to a philosophic position that supports a Pragmatic 
>> point of view.
>> It is an attempt to "advance the ball" on what is meant by making the first 
>> intellectual distinction
>> of experience into static and dynamic Quality. 
>> 
>> The primary value distinction, in a metaphysics of value, which is an 
>> intellectual pattern predicated
>> on value distinction (and let us reinforce this statement as to being no 
>> misunderstanding about what we
>> mean) is experience and explanation of experience. In explanation a distinction 
>> 
>> may be drawn
>> between reflection and non reflection. Decisions/action based on reflection 
>> often are more succesful
>> than those that are not. And when we then again make the distinction between 
>> what is best in terms
>> of reflection we begin to explore concepts and words meaning abstractions, the 
> 
>> consequences of
>> reification..ect.
>> 
>> I believe starting the dialog from this point of understanding would lead to 
>> some interesting discussions
>> such as the crafting of meaning from concepts and words and what is best and 
>> why.
>> 
>> Often the rhetorical device is brought into play of not having to make sense in 
>> 
>> a philosophical, reflective
>> conversation because what they mean is outside of languages conceptual ability 
> 
>> to entirely, wholy
>> and absolutely encapsulate and ultimately define what they mean.
>> This is regularly confused with explanations of the ineffiable appearing as 
>> cryptic and enigmatic
>> to those not "in the know". Their arguement being more based on the 
>> consequences 
>> 
>> of
>> esoteria rather than the ouright rejection of meaning they believe thay are 
>> defending.
>> 
>> 
>> And the confusion grows from there.
>> 
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> 
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