[MD] Free Will

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Ham,

Steve:
>> You didn't will yourself to not want to smoke which was
>> what was required in the example I gave. Your value of
>> smoking can be trumped by your value of personal health
>> if you happen to value one over the other, but you can't
>> will yourself to value one over the other. Either you do or
>> you don't. You are not free to value smoking over your
>> health if you actually value your health more than smoking.

Ham:
> I willed myself not to smoke cigarettes and pipes.  Must I give up cigars in
> order to satisfy your requirements for an example of free will?


Steve:
That wouldn't make a difference to this debate. I've granted from the
beginning that many of our actions are willed. What remains to be made
clear is what you mean when you say that not only do you will certain
things but that your will is free. As far as I can see, people will
acts, but they have no freedom to will what they will or will not
will. So just what sort of freedom is this when you say that you not
only have will but *free* will?


Ham:
>There is
> more to will (intention) than simply responding to value.  For instance, it
> requires judgment to prioritize one's values, plus self-control to act upon
> them rationally.  I exercise free choice in both of these functions.  Don't
> you?

Steve:
I make choices. I don't yet know what it means to you to say that such
choice is done freely.


> Steve:
>> If you agree with me that "Man cannot will what we wants..."
>> as you say above, then what does it mean to say that his will is free?
>> Man wills things but saying that not only does he have will but
>> that this will is also free doesn't seem to mean anything. All you
>> are saying then is the obvious claim that man has preferences and
>> acts on them.  These preferences often conflict and one preference
>> often takes precedence over another in given situations. Where
>> exactly does freedom come into this?

Ham:
> I can will to work out in the gym every day or not at all.  I choose to
> exercise in the gym once a week and supplement this with daily exercising at
> home.  I can will to correspond with people I don't enjoy talking with, to
> put off mowing the lawn when I don't feel like it, or to shop for a cinnamon
> bun rather than eating a Danish pastry my wife left for me.  Do you deny
> that I am free to make such choices?

Steve:
Not at all.  My question has always been, in what sense are you not
only willing acts but *free* willing acts?


Ham:
> But of greater importance to society at large are the moral values one acts
> upon.  Will the citizen cast his vote for a politican who believes in taxing
> the rich to support the poor?  Will the legislator approve a bill to
> legalize gay marriage, abolish capital punishment, or incorporate Sharia
> principles into common law?  Does the home owner whose mortgage is worth
> more than his devalued home simply default on his payments?  Does the
> physician who knows his patient is terminal end the suffering with a lethal
> drug?  The freedom exercised in such value-based actions affects all of us
> and can determine the course of our nation's history.
>
> Weighty thoughts to ponder relative to Free Will, eh?

Steve:
I suspect that Matt would say that the importance of making good
decisions in such situations makes the question of whether or not we
are really free to will what we will or are somehow caused by forces
not ourselves to will what we will a silly thing to spend our time
pondering. But nevertheless, here we are.

Best,
Steve