[MD] MOQ and Gödel's incompleteness theorems

[Ian Glendinning]

Dave and others generally,

Dave concluded:

"You could have a perfectly complete and logical system that is also
useless or even disastrous when applied. In that sense, logic and
pragmatic truth are two completely different things. Or maybe it would
be better to say that logic is true only to the extent that it's
useful."

I so agree with that, I could (probably have) said it myself.
Dave had earlier said:

"The latter [logic and maths] is almost entirely rational and the
former [MOQ] is almost entirely empirical."

What is really interesting about that simple statement is to note that
is does NOT say, the MOQ is irrational. It says it is not
(necessarily, 100%) rational in that GoF mathematical and logical way.
Again, spot on (if Dave will permit to agree twice !).

Which is why we see Godel in metaphysics. A good (complete)
metaphysics can never be complete in a logically rational way. And the
MoQ is in that sense a good example of a good metaphysics.

There is a meme / school of thought that criticizes people using Godel
in any context outside the domain of maths & logic - see Franzen -
since anything it says axiomatically can only really be applied in
that domain. But in fact you can use the same argument to say, so
therefore a metaphysics is not the domain of maths and logic (as in
fact Wittgenstein had showed Russell) and as this essay by my son Tom
also showed. http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1605

Metaphysics is the domain if quality (value).

Regards
Ian