[MD] MOQ and Completeness Theories (Sorry, Godel.)

[Ham Priday]

Hey Dan --

On Fri, March 25, 2011 at 12:55 AM, "Dan Glover" <daneglover at gmail.com> 
said:

> The MOQ states that the universe is an ethical activity. When it
> follows static patterns of value it is without choice. When it follows
> Dynamic Quality it is free. The universe is both purposeful and
> purposeless. The doctrines of free will and determinism, mind and
> matter, are not disparaged but rather brought together under the
> umbrella of Quality.

How do you know what is "ethical" or "moral" if the only free choice is 
undefined (i.e., unknown)?

Ham:
> Dan, rather than refuting Ron's suggestion that Free Will is natural
> selection, you have affirmed it.

Dan:
> How so?

[Dan, previously]:
> Natural selection pertains to the biological level. There is no choice
> involved. The fittest survive to pass on those survival traits while
> the less fit hit an evolutionary dead end.  At the biological level,
> the environment seems to determine the fittest. For example, global
> warming is threatening many species not able to adapt. No choice
> is involved.

[Ham, previously]:
> If man is not an independent entity, he can not exercise the power
> of Free Will.  Instead he is inextricably bound to the laws of nature,
> just as are earth's evolution and the planetary orbits.

Dan:
> Aren't we?  I think the MOQ states we are bound up within the
> culture we inhabit.

You say that there is no choice in the biological level, and we are bound to 
the culture we inhabit, which means there is no choice at the social level 
either.  (In fact, you said to Ron, "Even social patterns seem bound by 
determinism and not free will.")  That leaves the intellectual level, about 
which you said:
"Intellectual patterns may exhibit evolutionary free will, though to be 
honest I am hard pressed to think of any examples."  When Ron suggested 
human rights, trial by jury, and self-government, you dismissed them as 
static quality patterns, stating that "the MOQ says we are without choice 
when we follow static quality patterns."

So, where is Free Will anything other than "natural selection" in your 
philosophy?

Essentially curious,
Ham