[MD] Keep on ...

[Andre Broersen]

Joe to Andre and All:
I do not know why your post bothers me so.

Andre:
Hey Joe. I don't know either. Perhaps it is my sometimes rather crude 
and direct way of saying things. When it comes to the MOQ I want to 
defend its hard fought for 'space'(in the way Jaynes uses it in his 'The 
origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind'). .. you 
know the root expansion of rationality...a spiritual rationality. (ZMM)

And this leads to your following statement that 'Self and individuality 
are both indefinable in an evolutionary setting'.

I cannot find much wrong with this statement, not any contradiction with 
the MOQ (as far as I am aware) but where you got this from I am confused 
about (was it in my post?). The snippet you took from my post was a 
rather facetious and at the same time a sarcastic comment towards Marsha 
and her hangers-on commenting on the framework from within which they 
are operating.

It is not MOQ. It is SOM.

And I maintain this, no matter how much Marsha tries to evoke a Buddhist 
type interpretation. She has said herself she is no Buddhist, not even a 
student of such. So any pretended defense in the name of Buddhism is, 
for me, a wank. A dishonest travesty. A pretense at forwarding a point 
of view about which she knows nothing...yet claiming authority without 
understanding what she claims.

And just to be clear. Buddhist philosophy is not SOM.

Getting back to your question Joe: Does that mean that self and 
individuality are unreal?

I do not think that 'self' nor 'individuality' are unreal. They are 
useful patterns of value.

Joe:
I think it means that to see existence and essence as describing the 
same thing, like the nature of an individual, is in error.

Andre:
I fully agree with you. I have never understood what 'existence'  means. 
The word 'essence' I have begun to associate with Ham so I can wipe that 
one as well. And then you mention the 'nature of an individual'. I have 
no idea what you mean other than the MOQ's description of Lila.

Joe:
Evolution matters,...

Andre:
Why does evolution matter to you Joe?