[MD] The Hero's journey

[david buchanan]

"What guarantees the objectivity of the world in which we live is that this world is COMMON to us with other thinking beings. Through the COMMUNications that we have with other men we receive from them ready-made harmonious reasonings [the mythos]. ..And as these reasonings appear to fit the world of our sensations [the primary empirical reality], we think we may infer that these reasonable beings have seen the same thing as we; thus it is that we know we haven't been dreaming. It is this HARMONY, this QUALITY if you will, that is the sole basis for the only reality we can ever know."



Dan:
Not sure where this quote is from but it smacks of objectivity. They are saying because we as thinking beings agree on a commonality that it must be real and true. This goes against the grain of the MOQ... it leaves out the cultural lenses through which "thinking beings" view reality. ...

dmb says:

No, that quote is Pirsig and I think those ready-made harmonious reasonings ARE the cultural glasses. And it's not just a matter of agreement with other thinkers but also that they "appear to fit the world of our sensations". I mean, we don't want to say the world begins and ends with the subjective experience of each individual. That is pretty much the definition of solipsism. This Pirsig quote, like the others, all emphasize the collective nature of our mythos, our analogues, our ghosts, our cultural glasses etc.. and they emphasize the idea that all those inventions were produced in response to Quality, were guided on the track of the primary empirical reality. 

I think Matt did a pretty good job of saying why even the MOQ has to explain common sense reality. As I'd put it, we can't just go around thinking everything we think and believe and care about is just an illusion. I think it's better to think of those ready-made reasonings as those static latches that are successful enough to have persisted into our time. And yea, "time" is one of the patterns we've inherited. I mean it's one thing to say that gravity is an invention but apples fell before Newton invented it and we MOQers can fully accept Pirsig point and still prefer to jump out of a plane with a parachute rather than without a parachute. You know? A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet and gravity by any other name will still crush your bones.