[MD] The Hero's journey

[X Acto]

Robert Pirsig:

"This is the usual argument against the philosophic idealism
that is part of the MOQ so it had better be answered here.
It is similar to the question, “If a tree falls in the forest and
nobody hears it, does it make a sound?” The historic
answer of the idealists is, “What tree?”
"In order to ask this question you have to presuppose the existence
of the falling tree and then ask whether this presupposed tree would
vanish if nobody were there. Of course, it wouldn’t vanish! It has
already been presupposed.
"This presupposition is a standard logical fallacy known as a
hypothesis contrary to fact. It is the “hypothetical question” that is
always thrown out of court as inadmissible." [LILA'S CHILD annotation 80]

Ron comments:
In the context of "the historical response of the Idealists" (of which is part
of the MoQ)it is to be clear about the context of the conversation, since
a hypothosis always deals with presuppositions it only makes sense to follow through
in the logical consistancy within the context and that they only work as hypothisis if 
they are taken to follow the patterns observed in experience. 
The people throwing out hypothisis based on the fact that they are hypothisis are positivists 
the aggressive sort which tends to take the tack that if it is not directly observed
that it does not exist. Pirsig is saying that the type of question is thrown out not hypothetical
questions in general.

According to Pirsig that which has value exists. In that order, if a hypothisis has value
(the sort of value that is consistent with experience) and has been tested in experience
ie. trees make sounds when they fall and dog dishes continue to exist , then the hypothisis
certainly IS admissable because it also holds the power to make accurate predictions in
experience. 

Positing that trees dont make sounds and dog dishes vanish run contrary to patterns observed
in experience it is the logical fallacy which is the "hypothisis contrary to fact" it is also a positivist
position.

..Which begs the question as to why , exactly, Dan brings this into the discussion with Matt to 
support his contention. Unless Dan is saying that Pirsig is supporting a positivist point of view
in regard to biography and historical context.

..