[MD] Indeterminism

[Ham Priday]

On Fri, Sept. 14, 2011 at 5:02 AM, "MarshaV <valkyr at attn.net> wrote:


> It's a little unfair to label it 'Marsha's argument for the Buddhist 
> 'no-self',
> given the following excerpts from the MoQ:
>
> Annotation 29: “The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a
> “self” that is independent of inorganic, biological, social or 
> intellectual
> patterns. There is no “self” that contains these patterns. These patterns
> contain the self. This denial agrees with both religious mysticism and
> scientific knowledge. In Zen, there is reference to “big self” and “small
> self.”  Small self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
>    (RMP, Lila’s Child)
>
> The MOQ, like the Buddhists and the Determinists (odd bedfellows)
> says this “autonomous individual” is an illusion.
>    (RMP, Copleston)
>
> "This Cartesian 'Me,' this autonomous little homunculus who sits behind
> our eyeballs looking out through them in order to pass judgment on the
> affairs of the world, is just completely ridiculous. This self-appointed
> little editor of reality is just an impossible fiction that collapses the 
> moment
> one examines it. This Cartesian 'Me' is a software reality, not a hardware
> reality. This body on the left and this body on the right are running
> variations of the same program, the same 'Me,' which doesn't belong to
> either of them. The 'Me's' are simply a program format.
>
> Talk about aliens from another planet. This program based on 'Me's' and
> 'We's' is the alien. 'We' has only been here for a few thousand years or 
> so.
> But these bodies that 'We' has taken over were around for ten times that
> long before 'We' came along. And the cells - my God, the cells have been
> around for thousands of times that long."
>    (LILA, Chapter 15)
>
> 5.6  THE NOTION OF THE SELF
> "An example of _sammuti-sacca_ is the concept of self.  Pirsig follows
> the Buddha's teachings about the 'self' which doesn't recognise that it 
> has
> any real existence and that only 'nothingness' (i.e. Dynamic Quality) is
> thought to be real."    (McWatt, Anthony, 'AN INTRODUCTION TO
> ROBERT PIRSIG’S  METAPHYSICS OF QUALITY')
>
> Annotation 77:  "It's important to remember that both science and Eastern
> religions regard "the individual" as an empty concept. It is literally a 
> figure
> of speech. If you start assigning concrete reality to it, you will find 
> yourself
> in a philosophic quandary".
>    (RMP, Lila’s Child)

Dear Marsha --

I didn't mean to impugn you personally for having INITIATED the 'no-self' 
hypothesis, but rather to offer a caveat to Mark, with whom you've had some 
disagreements, that my Essence hypothesis poses some of the same 
difficulties in common.

Interesting, isn't it, that the idea of 'selfness' has been attacked by 
atheists, nihilists, objectivists, Buddha and Pirsig alike.  They all want 
to deny themselves any claim to Reality, as if their "souls" would 
contaminate it.  And yet, they identify their "personhood" as real, are 
counted as discrete individuals, and understand that it is they 
themselves--who experience the world and interpret it valuistically.

In fact, since it is the self which experiences--and even Pirsig says 
"experience is the cutting edge of reality"--there would be no world without 
a self.  Man's reality is a Self/Other relationship, no matter how you 
define these terms.  If you read my recent post to Mark, it may have 
surprised you that I don't regard the "personal 'I'" as a metaphysical 
reality.  However, both Sensibility (awareness) and Value (Quality) are 
derived from Essence, and the coupling of these attributes creates the Self. 
In other words, you and I are essentially "value-sensible agents", and the 
freedom with which we are empowered is a result of our autonomy in relation 
to the Source.

Our function in existence is PRECISELY "to look out through [our sensory 
organs] in order to pass judgment on the affairs of the world" as the 
Cartesian 'ME' suggests.
Indeed, why else would we be here?

Try meditating on that point, Marsha.  (It could provide the insight you're 
looking for.)

Yours in the quest for meaning,
--Ham