[MD] seeing

[MarshaV]

Hi Mark, 

Here's why it is useful:   

 "While I am thinking about it there is a very good book on Buddhism recently out called 'Buddhism, Plain and Simple', by Steve Hagen and published by Tuttle Publishing. I recommend you get it because it shows the similarities, between the MOQ and Zen Buddhism more clearly than any other I have seen."
 
     (Pirsig to McWatt, May 6th 1998)
 
Marsha
 
On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:10 PM, 118 wrote:

> Marsha,
> I am not sure what Hagen believes.  I have not read much by him.  You quoted him as something that you found useful.  Maybe a better question would be: how do you see the quote you provided as useful to MoQ?
> 
> If it is not, that is fine too.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:10 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2011, at 1:05 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> 
>>>> It's interesting that there are multiple types of _seeing_.  There is _seeing_ as the sense of sight, and there is _seeing_ as to understand intellectually or spiritually.  
>>>> 
>>>> -------------
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> “_Right effort_ means simply being present.  It means being here, staying here, and to _see_ what’s happening in this moment.  It’s not about trying to control, trying to bring something about --- like straining to achieve enlightenment.  This is much like trying not to think of an elephant.  _Right effort_ is naturalness --- naturalness of movement, naturalness of becoming this moment. 
>>>> 
>>>> --- 
>>>> 
>>>> “This is not how we usually understand effort.  Usually we make an effort to control, or be different, or try something new, or improve the situation, or ourselves.  Human history is filled with this kind of effort.
>>>> 
>>>> “And here we are with our improved human world that we’ve spent a great deal of time and energy working on.  We’ve improved the rivers and the lakes and the land and our society and our ways of living to the point where we now wonder if the human race will survive.
>>>> 
>>>> --- 
>>>> 
>>>> “_Right effort_ is, first of all, cutting off the fragmented and fractured states of mind that have already arisen in us.  In these common states of mind, the world appears “out there,” divided in various ways, with one thing set against another.  When we’re in such a state of mind, we _see_ things as needing to be manipulated and controlled.  The Buddha called such a state of mind “unwholesome” because it doesn’t take in the whole scene that’s being presented to us.  
>>>> 
>>>> “We have to _see_ where we can effectively apply our effort and where we can’t.  When we’re not _seeing_ we’ll put most, if not all, or energy into the areas where we have no control.  We’ll try to control situations, people, and things over which, in fact, we have little or no influence.  Sometimes we’ll try to control our own inclinations and impulses.  But it’s all a lot like trying not to think of an elephant. 
>>>> 
>>>> “We must first _see_ what we can control and what we can’t.  Otherwise we’ll waste our effort in trying to do the impossible while ignoring what is easily within reach.  
>>>> 
>>>>  (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, pp. 95 - 96)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 24, 2011, at 4:43 PM, 118 wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> Right effort is not written as a dogma that tells the thinker how to think, for that would be the antithesis of Buddhism.  But I do appreciate Mr. Hagen's personal opinion for what it is worth.  Do you believe like Hagen?
>>> 
>>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> What does Hagen believe?  
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha   

 
___