[MD] [Bulk] Re: Nagarjuna and the MOQ

[MarshaV]

 "When the Buddha spoke of individuals, he often used a different term “stream.”  Imagine a stream flowing --- constantly moving and changing, always different from one moment to the next.  Most of us see ourselves as corks floating in a stream, persisting things moving along in the stream of time.  But this is yet another frozen view.  According to this view. everything in the stream changes except the cork.  While we generally admit to changes in our body, our mind, our thoughts, our feelings, our understandings, and our beliefs, we still believe, “I myself don’t change.  I’m still me.  I’m an unchanging cork in an ever-changing stream.”  This is precisely what we believe the self to be --- something that doesn’t change. 

   "The fact is, however, that there are no corks in the stream.  There is only stream.  What we conceptualize as “cork” is also stream.  We are like music.  Music, after all, is a type of stream.  Music exists only in constant flow and flux and change.  Once the movement stops, the music is no more.  It exists not as a particular thing, but as pure coming and going with no thing that comes or goes.

    "Look at this carefully.  If this is true --- how a stream exists, how music exists, and how we exist --- see how it is that when we insert the notion of “I” we’re posited some little, solid entity that floats along, not as stream, but like a cork in a stream.  We see ourselves as solid corks, not as the actual stream we are.

   "If we are the stream, what is it that experiences the flux, the flow, the change?  The Buddha saw that there is no particular thing that is having an experience.  There is experience, but no experiencer.  There is perception, but no perceiver.  This is consciousness, but no self that can be located or identified."
 
 
   (Hagen, Steve, ‘Buddhism: Plain and Simple’, p.128)

 
 
 
On Sep 20, 2011, at 2:28 AM, Andre Broersen wrote:

> Dan to Ham:
> 
> The reason no one complains is that it does no good. I tried discussing the MOQ with you on numerous occasions to no avail. Like Marsha (Lucy), you seem to want to engage me in a game but then you pull the football away. I think you should be happy you have others like Marsha and Mark who enjoy discussing nonsense and leave the rest of us alone.
> 
> Andre:
> I second this Dan. Guilty as charged.
> 

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