[MD] Creative Freedom in Jazz

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 12:47 AM, Carl Thames <cthames at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover at gmail.com>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 11:57 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [MD] Creative Freedom in Jazz
>
>
>>>> Dan:
>>>> See... the rules are the ideas whereas using those rules allows the
>>>> artist to express their ideas. I don't think the medium matters so
>>>> much as the message the artist attempts to send. I am not a musician
>>>> nor do I dabble in the visual arts. I write. But I get the sense all
>>>> artists approach their craft in much the same fashion. Those who
>>>> succeed perhaps have some natural proclivity but likely as not they've
>>>> also worked their asses off learning their craft.
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl:
>>> Agreed, and the artist succeeds to the extent that s/he can get that idea
>>> across in a way that contians the "Ahhhh" of artistry. If you've been
>>> writing very long, you've no doubt heard that there are 36 basic plots.
>>> If
>>> you go more into it, you find there are 4 basic scenerios, depending on
>>> the
>>> level of education you manage. (Man vs. Man, Man vs. nature, etc.) I did
>>> all that, including working my ass off, and did manage to get some stuff
>>> published, but then made the decision that it wasn't what I wanted to be
>>> doing. I still miss writing, because it was so much a part of my life for
>>> a
>>> long time, but I don't miss dealing with the pinheads you had to deal
>>> with
>>> to get it published.
>>
>>
>> Dan:
>> If writing isn't for you, then you are fortunate to discover that.
>> What is it that appeals to you now?
>
>
> Carl:
> I still write, I just don't try to get it published.  What do you write?

Dan:
Thank you for asking. I write fiction... working on a series of novels
now... the first four being published along with a couple collections
of short stories. I also dabble in philosophy.

>
>>> Carl:
>>> Would you say it's (art) the act, or the execution? Is there a
>>> difference? Can
>>>
>>> you sit down to create art, or is is something that happens while you're
>>> sitting down? i.e. how much intent is involved?
>>
>>
>> Dan:
>> I should think it obvious that a vast amount of intent is needed. Art
>> doesn't just pop into being out of thin air. Remember the motorcycle
>> shop in ZMM where the narrator took his motorcycle to be 'fixed' and
>> how the 'mechanic' there began beating on it with a hammer and chisel?
>> Was that guy an artist? Of course not! He was a hack.
>>
>> Anyone can be a hack. It takes diligence and perseverance to be an
>> artist. You mention how hard you worked at writing only to give it up
>> in the end. If your writing was a motorcycle I suppose it would be a
>> basket case stuck in the back of someone's garage. I don't mean to be
>> disparaging but when someone tells me, oh yes, I used to write but
>> blah blah blah, I can't help but see that as a big pile of crap. So
>> you learned a few things and found out you couldn't 'hack' it... that
>> writing was actually hard work. And you gave up. Am I supposed to take
>> something of value from that?
>
>
> Carl:
> You didn't read very carefully there.  I said I had given up on dealing the
> with people you have to deal with to publish, I never gave up on writing.

Dan:
I beg your pardon then... when I read this from your earlier post:

"I did all that, including working my ass off, and did manage to get
some stuff published, but then made the decision that it wasn't what I
wanted to be doing.  I still miss writing..."

It appeared to me that you no longer wrote... I mean, you cannot miss
doing something you are still doing, can you? Still, I will certainly
take more care in reading your posts in the future, or at least
reading between the lines...

>  I
> think it would be easier to walk away from my left arm.  I had a problem
> that was similar to the problem many doctors are facing.  I spent many years
> learning to write, and not nearly enough time learning to do the business
> end of it.  I did manage to achieve some measure of success with it, but it
> was fleeting at best.  I was writing short stories for magazines, as well as
> some non-fiction.  (I much prefer fiction.)  One of the magazines I
> published in regularly was edited by a photographer.  He wasn't even a
> writer, and had no understanding of writing.  His boss apparently told him
> to buy some fiction to put between the pictures, so he did.  I also did a
> lot of features for him, but they weren't my favorite thing to do.  I was
> actually listed as contributing editor for over a year with that
> publication.  (Tattoo Magazine, by Paisano Publications.  It is published in
> five languages.)  I could have continued with different publications, and
> have published in others, but I don't really like the magazine format.  You
> can reach a large audience, but it's there for a month, then it's gone.  I
> have written three books, but they were too different than the mainstream
> and didn't find a publisher.  One of them found an agent, and it bounced off
> 25 different publishers, but nobody bought it.  I have been thinking of
> going the Amazon route with it, but right now I'm pretty consumed with the
> classes I'm taking for this Master's Degree.  I may come back to it after
> I'm done.

Dan:
It is a new world so far as publishing goes, what with the e-readers
now available and the burgeoning market that goes along with it. Even
established authors are going the e-book route these days and
bypassing traditional publishers all together. Good luck in your
future endeavors.

>
>
>>> Carl:
>>> I'm not sure how to respond to this one. The best story I've ever written
>>> just happened. I sat down to write, like I was doing every day then, and
>>> just started with a line from a country song. I went from there, and
>>> three
>>> hours later I had the story. I'm not even sure how much active mental
>>> whatever went into the story. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't a flash
>>> of anything, it just manifested. I could never just sit down and write a
>>> great story. Frequently, I would start writing, then after while the
>>> story
>>> would show up. I would go back and delete the first three pages or
>>> whatever
>>> and continue on. I wish I could explain that, but I can't. That
>>> experience
>>> would make me question the idea of the unexamined life stuff. I was
>>> pretty
>>> unaware at the time, and in fact I was living in a dissociated state. I
>>> was
>>> a pretty good witness, but not much of a participant. Food for thought.
>>
>>
>> Dan:
>> No, I doubt any story 'just happens.' You reached a point in life
>> where what you fed into your mind paid off. You may not have been
>> conscious of this activity but you were immersed in a complex web of
>> social and intellectual patterns we call culture and that story that
>> 'just happened' was the result of all those years spent in that
>> culture... all the words you might have read, all the movies you might
>> have watched, all the conversations you might have had... any
>> interaction that took place between you and the otherness that you
>> assumed surrounds you. And out popped a story.
>
>
> Carl:
> That's what I'm talking about.  I didn't sit down to write that particular
> story.  It wasn't the type of story that I normally wrote.  It just
> happened.  It was told from the 'innocent eye' narrator, which I don't use.
> I wonder to this day how it happened.  That's what I meant about intent.  I
> wanted to write a good story, but just not THAT story.

Dan:
Still, the intent and the skill sets needed to produce a good story
were there... wanting has very little to do with it, in my opinion.
There are probably a million people sitting in front of computers
right now wanting to write a great story instead of just doing it. You
did it. And that is something to be proud of. Now, do it again. You
know how it happened whether you realize it or not...

>
>
>>> Dan:
>>>
>>>> I get the feeling many people cover this up by working a regular job,
>>>> by watching television, by playing video games, by endlessly surfing
>>>> the 'net... by doing anything that covers up that tiny voice crying
>>>> out in the wilderness... that creative urge we all feel if only we
>>>> allow ourselves a moment of silence.
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl:
>>> To a point. I've met people who achieved their greatest bliss making a
>>> car
>>> run. We need to be careful about projecting our values onto other people.
>>> A
>>> lot of them go for numb, (I think I've met most of them) but there are a
>>> few
>>> who are actively involved in creating, but not in creating anything you
>>> or I
>>> would call art. My oldest sister achieved her "Ahhhh" by decorating
>>> cakes.
>>> She is really good at it, and thoroughly enjoys doing it. I think she
>>> would do it for free if someone supplied the supplies. Different strokes
>>> and all that. Now, for Joe Sixpack, it's a different story. It's almost
>>> as
>>> if he has given up on life, or never begun to live it. Maybe he or she
>>> (Jane Sixpack) did when they were young and were snuffed? Someone told
>>> them
>>> that what they wanted to do was impossible, or whatever, and they
>>> believed
>>> the person? I don't know.
>>
>>
>> Dan:
>> Your sister is an artist and I suspect you might take a clue from her.
>> But that is up to you, of course.
>
>
> Carl:
> I will continue to do what I do, but I doubt I'll make a huge effort to get
> it published.  i.e. no change needed.

Dan:
If you find what you love, then do it... that is what I meant to say.
Too many people haven't a clue as to what they love. They do what they
have to do, or what they're told they should do. Try asking someone,
anyone, if they could do anything in the world they'd love to do, what
would it be? And wait for an answer. After a blank stare, I get vague
answers like, sit on the sofa and drink vodka, be a housewife, quit my
job, travel, start my own business.

Your sister is lucky in that she has that question all figured out.
And I know what I do... now... what would you do?

>
>
>>> Dan:
>>>
>>>> Ah... but what of that...
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl:
>>> The difference between a life realized and one just lived? This begs the
>>> question of just how important Quality is to us. How much real difference
>>> does it make in our lives? We are born, we grow, we fulfill the
>>> biological
>>> imperitive, then we die. Our children are born, grow, etc. etc. ad
>>> naseum.
>>> Hmmm, is Quality the "brass ring" we're supposed to go for? More food for
>>> thought, eh?
>>
>>
>> Dan:
>> Quality is everything. If you do not understand that, then I cannot
>> explain it to you. Quality isn't a thing... it isn't the 'brass ring'
>> everyone seems intent on grasping. Quality is right here! But I do
>> wonder why it is so hard to see...
>
>
> Carl:
> I guess the obvious question here is why everyone doesn't do it.  It's not
> hard for me to see at all, and I try to live it as much as possible.  I do
> ocassionally get lazy, and chose to play computer games rather than chasing
> another story, but most people don't even do that.  I wonder if they don't
> get jaded.  Or cynical.  Or maybe they never come to believe that it's
> possible?  Our society is great about dashing dreams and crushing hopes.  I
> often wonder just how many exceptionally talented people are out there
> punching a time clock because they have to do that to keep the tacos on the
> table.  I don't like to think about that too much, though.

Dan:
I tend to steer away from people who are downers when it comes to
supporting others chasing their dreams. And we all have dreams... or
had them at one time or another. And yes, people are great at
shattering those hopes and dreams... especially loved ones who are
looking out for us. Chasing dreams is difficult business at best and
odds are we'll fail in the end.

At the same time though, there is great joy to be found in being a
happy idiot. There are many times when I wish I could be one of those
time-clock punching Joe-six-pack kind of guys sitting blissfully in
front of a flickering tv screen night after night with a nice chubby
wife waiting patiently in bed with her legs spread wide for me.

But... I am not.

Thank you,

Dan

http://www.danglover.com