[MD] Awareness and consciousness in the MOQ

[X Acto]

Ant McWatt comments:

What happens here if there is no discernable difference?  


Mark Smit continued April 19th:

Additionally, what comes first, the two halves or the difference
between them?  The SOM personality would say that the two halves must
exist first for there to be a difference between them.  However, the
MoQ would say that the difference exists before the two halves.

Ant McWatt comments:

Really Mark?  I don't think it would.  Which part of Pirsig's writings led 
you to that peculiar conclusion?

Ron comments:
Actually Ant, this is a rather interesting philosophical question to attempt to clarify.
 
I think starting off with your comment "What happens here if there is no discernable difference?"
is the way to approach it.
The first distinction is the value placed on the experience of the apple. If the apple
is not valued or more precisely it may not be distinguished from the rest of experience,
 it may be said to not exist.
 
To answer Mark then, the value of the apple comes first. The concepts of halves and wholes
follows. We understand the whole (unity) in terms of the parts (plural). To clarify I am speaking
from the pluralality of (dynamic) experience to form the whole of the (static) concept. Once the 
concept is formed the concept of halves follows (the division of a whole) and I think that is what Mark
is driving at.
 
 
Mark Smit continued April 19th:

Again, what is the nature of this difference that exists before the
two halves?  Where do you find it?  Well the answer is obvious; you
cannot find it because it does not exist.  Yet, how then does it
create the two halves?  Here the analogy is the knife used to cut the
halves.  There were no two halves before the knife created them.
Likewise, subject and object do not exist before Quality creates them.
What does Quality create?  It creates qualities of course.  Without
qualities there is nothing (for real).

Ron comments:
I would say that Mark is starting to get lost in intellectual rationalization with bringing
in the metaphor of the knife. Pirsig used that metaphor as the intellect but Mark is associating
it with Quality and seems to imply that Quality makes the division of subjects and objects
and not the intellect.
 
I just thought it was a fun question.
 
thnx.