[MD] humpty dumpty

[MarshaV]

Hi dmb,

On Aug 2, 2012, at 4:48 PM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:


>> On Jul 31, 2012, at 5:55 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Questioner:  This idea of reason and rationality as a cage in itself; in what sense can it be a cage?
>> 
>> 
>> RMP:  The cage itself is a definition.  The definition is a cage.  --- Latin phrase --- It's an old Aristotelian construction.  You set limits on what a word is.  You set limits on what your experience is.  And those limits which you set, in order that you can manipulate these words correctly, are also a cage for that word; they can't go beyond it one way or another.  One of the reasons we don't define Quality is because if we do we cage it and if you don't define it then all of a sudden the Quality spreads out all over the Universe, sort of speak.
> 
> 
> Dave Thomas said:
> DMB cannot give you a Pirsig definition of "intellectual" because as Pirsig indicates above definitions are cages. Neither could he give you a Pirsig definition of "social", "organic", or "inorganic." RMP uses analogies, examples, and context to suggest their meanings thus avoiding the trap having to define the word or to tell you which definition of a word with multiple meanings he's using.
> 
> 
> 
> dmb says:
> Words are SUPPOSED to be definable. To say that Quality cannot be defined is to say that Quality can't be caged. I think it's a huge mistake, however, to construe this as a condemnation of words and definitions. We need the meaning of words to be limited, otherwise they're quite useless. Without definitions, you can't do metaphysics or any other kind of thinking.
> 
> 

Marsha:
I did not present this quote as a condemnation of anything.  I think RMP, throughout his writen works, addresses both the _strength_ and _weaknesses_ of reason, rationality, words and definitions; it important to consider and accept both aspects.  


Marsha
 
 p.s.  Dave Thomas, I am not anti-intellectual.  I just think it wise to acknowledge the limitations as well as the strengths; limitations RMP has presented.