[MD] Circular truth.

[MarshaV]

Hi Ron,

On Aug 31, 2012, at 10:16 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:


>>> Re: [MD] Creative Freedom in Jazz
>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:40 PM, David Harding <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David wrote to dmb:
>>> We both agree that truth is a description for high quality patterns.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha wonders:
>> Is truth then a description for truth?
> 
> 
> [David responds]
> No. It is true that truth exists though. Remembering that everything
> is quality - It is a high quality intellectual idea that high quality
> intellectual ideas exist. A handy name for them is the shortened
> version - truth.
> 
> 
>> 
> [Marsha in response to Ron]:
>> I don't think of the NOW experience as being a 'supposition'.  I don't think of the NOW 
> experience being 'real' or 'true' either.  It is only afterwards such an experience is assigned 
> an analogous descriptor.
> 
> 
> {Ron replies}
> Well, thats what being a supposition means - that only afterwards it holds as analogous,
> As "supposed" to be real or true,.. but
> lets assume your position and follow it a bit and see if it links up...
> The NoW experience is neither "real" or "true", therefore it can niether have use or good.
> by neccessity it then has no value. Thats a problem straight off.
> 
> I'm not sure this squares. At least not with RMP's explanations.
> 
> Now truth being conditional or "hypothetical" in no way undercuts it's truth VALuE.
> Because it is always intimately part of consequences of the NoW experience. Having
> consequences it has value therfore it has use and good therefore by necessity it must
> have a truth and a real-ness.Or what we mean by using those terms For some things 
> are indeed better than others. This is what we mean when we say they are truer or 
> posses a "real-ness".
> 
> Saying that truth or "the true" is conditional begins to ask HOW is it true? and THAT
> seems to be where your arguement is focused and has traction, in the context of conditions.
> 
> NOW you have some rhetorical power when somone asserts a truth, you inquire into
> the conditions of that assertion, that is when truths become many and varied some having
> equitable value despite the point of view or particular "conditions" it's in how the data
> is interpreted. (social/ intellectual).


Marsha:
Whatever descriptor one presents, whether 'supposition', 'real', 'true' or 'chocolate', I don't think it can be applied in the NOW experience; such a descriptor can only be applied afterwards.  

I having nothing so say about 'truth'; it is not a pattern that I am interested in discussing.  



Marsha