[MD] kill all intellectual patterns

Tue Dec 4 01:50:18 PST 2012

Hi Mark

I think you are an intelligent person, but you seem to prefer to write rather than read and think. The answer of all your questions is in LILA, ZMM and MALC.I think I gave you this advice earlier. You don't seem to understand much of either. Stop hammering your keyboard and begin to use your own brain. Don't be afraid. That's all you need to come closer to "Quality".

Best regards

Jan Anders

2 dec 2012 kl. 20:34 skrev 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com>:

> Hi J-A,
> Thank you for your response.  You have an interesting opinion on the levels.
> 
> In my opinion, the levels are like floors in a building where things
> happen.  There is of course communication between floors and some
> commonality.
> 
> However, you have not given any reason why the presentation of levels is
> important towards describing Quality.  You can have opinions what the
> levels are, but that is not what I was asking.
> 
> Given that awareness as Quality is really something that should be sought,
> how is it that the levels provide this?  That is what I am asking.  Why
> levels?  Perhaps you can address this, if you have an opinion about it.
> 
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> If you read my book "Money and the Art of Losing Control" thoroughly you
>> should know very well why it is so important to understand the difference
>> between the levels.
>> 
>> Truth is an intellectual pattern. Oh, please believe me, or who cares?
> 
> Comment:  This sounds like dogma to me.  I am fine to consider truth to be
> an intellectual pattern and that such a statement is an intellectual
> pattern.  So we have an intellectual pattern giving rise to another
> intellectual pattern, and in this way we remove truth from the equation.
> So let's forget about truth, let us just stick to the term intellectual
> pattern if that is indeed what truth is.  It seems to me that you are
> bringing additional baggage to the term "truth", and I wonder what that is.
> Is it possible that truth is actually outside an intellectual pattern?
> Can it exist outside of the web of reason?  Something to think about.
> 
>> 
>> Grief is a socially based emotion, just because we need each other.
> 
> Comment: It seems you are defining social in terms of group behavior.  This
> is fine.  However, this is not the social level, but a result of the social
> level.  Like I said, the social level is a place where things happen, that
> is why it is called a level.  One of these things is one person needing
> another.  Another is the expression of personal grief for the passing of a
> loved one.  However, you statement does not touch on the purpose of such
> level.  That is what I am after.
> 
>> 
>> Everyonce you fall asleep, you're returning to the forces of the
>> biological level. It's so sweet...
> 
> Comment:  So far as I can tell, we are always under the forces of the
> biological level.  It is the biological level that provides us with our
> intellect.  Without nerves firing, there would be no intellect.  The
> intellect is one manifestation of the biological level, like a fruit on a
> tree.  We can never be free of the biological level therefore we can never
> return to it.  What you are speaking of is the cessation of thought as
> intention.  This is simply the stopping of directed thinking.  This can be
> considered as something which happens in the intellectual level.  So in my
> opinion you are not pointing to the biological level at all with your
> statement.  Again, it takes a good understanding of what these levels mean
> and why they were presented in aid of describing Quality.
> 
>> 
>> Something that dies, returns to the physical level.
> 
> Comment:  Again, we cannot escape the physical level.  Life can be
> considered as one manifestation of the physical level.  The physical level
> is with us when we are alive.  Here you are pointing to consciousness.
> With that in mind, how would you describe consciousness using the level
> analogy?
> 
>> 
>> A society's power is based on cooperation by people with different
>> abilities, while the strength of biological species is based on
>> specialization and massreproduction to overcome individual failures.
> 
> Comment:  This sounds like something derived from the intellectual level.
> It gives the impression that the intellectual level can dominate the other
> levels, which is, of course, the arrogant ego.  What you term as "society"
> does not come from the social level, but a concept from the intellectual
> level.  The same can be said for your dictum of specialization and such.
> These are intellectual constructs and therefore reside in the intellectual
> level.  Besides, I think that Darwinism is far from adequate to explain the
> human condition.  But that is my opinion.  Darwinism can be enlightening,
> but more often it results in evil.  What kind of world is it that requires
> we do battle with each other?  This sounds like the ancient Jews and
> their Yahweh.  Yes, nature is a punishing God according to them.  I thought
> we had got beyond that, but yet here we are again, trying to part the Red
> Sea.
> 
>> 
>> The strength of a chemical or physical pattern is based on mathematical
>> perfection, statistical and repetitive procedures.
> 
> Comment: Yes, math is used to describe such things and can be useful.
> Mathematics is a creation of man, and can therefore never be perfect
> unless you think a mathematician is perfect.  You point to the scientific
> method and I wonder how much you know about it.  Did you know that the same
> set of data can be interpreted into conflicting model's?  Did you know that
> science is provisional until a better idea comes forth?  Did you know that
> statistic is used when we cannot say anything about the individual.  While
> we can predict where things will go statistically, it is much harder to
> predict where an individual will go.  Statistic falls apart at the
> specific.  Statistic is a generality that has little to do with a single
> event.  It is afterthought, and not predictive to the individual.
> 
>> 
>> It's all based on change, change is the main issue when we discuss
>> Quality. How can we change something to be better?
>> If we really care, we just have to learn as much as we can about the
>> levels. It is totally dumb to arrange a birthdayparty or a wedding
>> following the rules of the biological level, isn't it? Social behaviour is
>> mandatory at any discussion forum.
> 
> Comment: Yes, I like this.  However, I would use a different term from
> change.  I would use "creativity".  The levels are based on creativity.
> How can we create something better?  Remember that your interpretation of
> the levels is from the intellectual side of things.  An atom could care
> less about what you are thinking, while we care much more about what an
> atom is doing.
> 
> The rules of the biological level that you refer to are intellectual rules,
> not biological ones.  Don't confuse the levels.  As I see it, we can
> describe the levels as a pyramid where each level gets smaller and more
> specialized.  With a pyramid, the base is the most important and directs
> how the other levels are expressed.
> 
> I agree that a certain social etiquette is mandatory in any discussion
> forum.  Hopefully those with antagonistic tendencies will leave one by one.
> I am tired of all this name calling.  What ever happened to civil
> discussion?
> 
> Thank you for providing something I can opine about.  I do not intend to be
> "right" about these things.
> 
>> 
>> Und so weiter...
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 30 nov 2012 kl. 23:39 skrev 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> Why are the levels important in understanding Quality?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is this not worthy of discussion?  Is this not a fundamental question?  I
>>> am sure many have much better answers than I do.
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