[MD] Truth and Relativity 2.0

[MarshaV]

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 13, 2012, at 6:46 AM, David Harding <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
>>> That said, how do we 'ungrasp'? Is it a simple change in mindset? Or is it more than that? This is why I say that the MOQ offers us a way to free ourselves from this suffering. Not by just simply saying 'change your mindset'. But it's only through practice along the lines of Zen training that we can truly learn to not grasp. And this is what the MOQ points to. It actually describes within the language of a Metaphysics how Zen training works. Take meditation for example. How does that help us to 'ungrasp'? I sit. And what happens when I sit.. When I sit, if I haven't done it for a while, the mind races at 10000 miles an hour. But if I do it regularly enough, the mind slows down. It doesn't race so quickly. And the more one sits. The less the mind races. This can continues until the mind 'stops'. It's at this point that one is said to be enlightened.  
>>> 
>>> So, using the language of the MOQ, the way we free ourselves from static patterns is to get them perfect. Zen meditation is a very carefully selected task which is made very simple on purpose. It's really easy to perfect. All you do is just sit there. This is why it's called 'just sitting'. You don't 'do' anything. You just sit there. And so this is how we free ourselves from the static patterns and the suffering in life.
>> 
>> Buddhism offers great wisdom and insight to be considered and tested through experience, but it seems that you are leaning towards Zen Buddhism. I would not discourage you. I learned meditation techniques from studying Raja Yoga.  
>> 
>> I am grateful to both the MoQ and Buddhism for a simple change in perspective. It seems it is now up to me to stay mindful so that to the extent possible my behavior will be free; and, hopefully, that will minimize the hate and greed and ignorance I add into my relationships. It is only the hate, greed and ignorance that I need surrender. That's not a huge sacrifice.
> 
> I think that one who is truly free is one who is egoless.  That requires great sacrifice. The ego is more than hate, greed and ignorance. When we sit in meditation we face the ego. You are forced to. You just sit there and it can't help but appear. The pain which is felt while sitting in meditation brings it out. But the way to deal with the pain is to not make a judgement about it. To not say "ow this is so painful!" but to sit and live the pain. To accept the pain. Or, in MOQ language, to accept that static quality exists. To perfect the static quality. To live through the static quality. It is this living through the static quality which kills it and it's gone…  
> 
> "There in the most monotonous boredom the Dynamic Quality can be found".

Yes, and I get that your understanding is based on your experience (hopefully) and static pattern history.  The tales describing the moment of enlightenment are quite varied; the _monotonous boredom_ from "just sitting" is but one possible trigger.  (I am not saying you are incorrect.)  I do agree that meditation seems to be an essential requirement.  


>> You addressed no judgements and no values within Zen. I see a difference between the social judgements that one pronounces and the MoQ's Value. I think it is important to distinguish between the two. (This is where the four evolutionary levels are useful.) It seems to me one is a social/cultural point-of-view and the other is a MoQ point-of-view. I would think that one should be cautious with the first and realize the second.
> 
> That's fine, but I don't understand how this relates to no judgments and no values? Can you perhaps explain this more?


>>> David, you wrote:
>>> Well I think that if we evaluate things then that's more attachment.  In Zen they say to pass no judgement. No values.  To not bring in the judging mind. Just let thoughts come and let them pass away.  If you keep bringing judgements in like this the mind will keep ticking away.

I think that judgements based on social/ego attachment are what the Zen people are addressing. That IS attachment.  But if static patterns of value are understood to exist relatively, there is nothing to attach to.  Static patterns of value are process, a series of momentary events, at best a pattern of nominal convenience.   I don't think that all patterns are attachment and suffering.  It depends on how you understand them.  


Marsha