[MD] Metaphysics and the mystic.

[Joseph Maurer]

Hi Mark and All,

How does metaphysics differ from physics?  In DQ Pirsig saw a reality that
is indefinable yet perceivable.  In SQ he saw a reality that is definable
and perceivable. 

In SOM there is no knowable, indefinable reality

SOM formats the knowledge of reality: real existence of the thing outside
the mind.  Intentional existence in the definition and knowledge of the
thing created in the mind.

Learning is not a yes or no process for validating or invalidating
evolution.  That is the purview of metaphysics, a logical process embodying
learning.  

MOQ introduces a third element, the evolution in existence itself, which
describes levels in existence as evolution in reality.

SOM divides existence into a real existence of the thing and an intentional
existence created by the mind for the knowledge of a thing.  No room for
evolution!   

Knowledge exists differently than matter! This validates the possibility of
a knowledge of levels in existence, evolution.  To see only one level in
existence removes the relationship between reality and a measure for
reality.  The declaration of the truth or falsity in the variety of
evolution measures reality.  Pirsig observed the DQ/SQ metaphysics, MOQ.

Everyone agrees there is a logical place for something that is definable.
Indefinable DQ embraces evolution as levels in existence more logically than
definable SQ. In that sense is DQ of more value than SQ in a discussion, by
being indefinable?  DQ/SQ is neat.

DQ intuition has SQ manifestation for logic and backup. SQ is defined and
has a broader base in logic.  However, indefinable DQ can modify SQ.  How
can I recognize this place?  I have to accept something that is indefinable
and knowable.  Imho the description of emotions which are indefinable is a
proper analog for DQ.

That there is something uncommon in emotions becomes more evident when
discussing a difference in perception between Women and Men.

Joe

On 2/13/12 2:56 PM, "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> Thank you for explaining, but none was necessary.  I meant it
> sincerely when I thanked you for your opinion.  I simply had no reply.
>  Mostly because I did not understand it.
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 
> On 2/13/12, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Kid gloves?  I come from a family with 14 children and differences became
>> acceptable after enough squabbling.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/12/12 5:46 PM, "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> OK Joe,
>>> Thanks for your opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On Feb 12, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Mark;
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know that "better half" is a level in evolution.  It is certainly
>>>> sweet of you to suggest that your wife is your better half, but I don't
>>>> see
>>>> marriage as DQ/SQ evolution since men exist and women exist without
>>>> marrying
>>>> and human babies are not a new species!
>>>> 
>>>> I am afraid my poetic license is not useful in MOQ!  I certainly misspoke
>>>> if
>>>> poetic license "Marriage as analogous to DQ/SQ" is accepted as evolution
>>>> instead of social control in differences.
>>>> 
>>>> Joe
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 2/11/12 10:41 PM, "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>> I must confess, I have no idea what you are talking about, but it
>>>>> sounds interesting.  Type away, I am listening.  I know that my wife
>>>>> is my better half.
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Mark and all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do not know how you view sexual differences: Man/Woman.  An emphasis
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> differences between men and women is physically discernable.  I put
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> trust in the emotional response of women than that of men.  Gender is
>>>>>> meaningful as well as physical.  I talk about emotions with some
>>>>>> reserve.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think being tongue-tied for a man in the presence of a woman has a real
>>>>>> basis.  Since Louise has passed I kind of flounder around at the
>>>>>> keyboard
>>>>>> since I can't ask her.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I fully approve of an emphasis on common aid in marriage as analogous
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> DQ/SQ.  It makes life very much more meaningful.  I note that SQ side
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> man
>>>>>> follows a DQ(emotional) side of Woman creating the opportunity for
>>>>>> perceiving emphasis.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/10/12 4:05 PM, "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am fine with keeping emotions indefinable.  How do we talk about
>>>>>>> them then?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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