[MD] Relativism, a definition

[Tuukka Virtaperko]

Marsha,
huh? don't just give up. I didn't get it that there's some form of 
relativism specific to Buddhism. In the Diamond Sutra, they speak of 
"figures of speech" (chapter 30 for instance) . Is that different from 
"conventional (relative) truth"? I suppose it is, but I don't know what 
that concept means.

-Tuukka



6.1.2012 13:55, MarshaV kirjoitti:
> Tuukka,
>
> My definition of 'static patterns of value' is based on my understanding of static quality and Buddhism's conventional (relative) truths.  If it doesn't work for you, please ignore it.  I'll do the same with what you present.  Thanks.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko<mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>  wrote:
>
>> Marsha,
>>> Marsha said:
>>>
>>> Static patterns of value are processes, conditionally co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and conceptualized, that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable pattern.  Within the MoQ, these patterns are categorized into a four-level, evolutionary, hierarchical structure:  inorganic, biological, social and intellectual. This static value exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns.  Patterns depend upon innumerable causes and conditions (patterns), depend upon parts and the collection of parts (patterns), depend upon conceptual designation (patterns). Patterns have no independent, inherent existence.  Further, these patterns represent "what works" depending upon on an individual's static pattern of life history.
>> Tuukka:
>> You sound a bit like Aristotle making lists, but I do think I see your point here. Well, that's one kind of relativism, which brings us to the problem of defining relativism. Static quality does not allow moral relativism, because even though the patterns or slots are defined relative to each other, they comprise an absolute value hierarchy once the definition is done. That is why it's confusing to call static quality "relativistic". It will easily give the wrong impression. I think it's better to say that static quality is "recursive". Because relativism doesn't automatically imply that the structure of the theory is co-dependent of itself.
>>
>> If you state that "Truth X is a relativistic truth" then that might as well mean that in some cultures, it is considered true, and in others, it is not. It doesn't imply any kind of internal co-dependence or self-determination within truth X itself. Only that truth X depends on something else. And even that does not necessarily imply recursion, because such a dependency could also be linear.
>>
>> Another reason why it's confusing to call static quality relativistic is, that it's everything that can be defined. So if it's relative to something, what is it relative to? Isn't everything else relative to it? To be sure, we could say static quality is relative to Dynamic Quality, and nobody could prove that wrong, but DQ is undefinable, and I'm interested in system building here. I don't expect people to be able to speak of DQ in a casual manner and put DQ as a meaningful point of reference when trying to build a recursive system. That would be like trying to clap with one hand. And besides DQ, there is apparently nothing whatsoever that static quality could be relative to.
>>
>> -Tuukka
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