[MD] Loops - Question for Tuukka

[Ian Glendinning]

http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3392
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=1567
QUOTE
"The whole book is a million ways different ways of expressing A:B :: X:Y .
“Get a life” you might think. Chapter 8 is worth the slog."
UNQUOTE

Ian


On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Ian Glendinning
<ian.glendinning at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tuukka,
>
> After GEB also read
> "Minds I" and "I am a Strange Loop" are his popular works
>
> BUT most importantly ...
> "Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies - Computer Models of the
> Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought."
> (Amazingly geeky content as well as title, but it blew my mind. I
> suspect its recursive patterns will appeal to you too.)
>
> Ian
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko
> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
>> Ian,
>> yeah, so since Gödel realized you can have numbers standing for statements
>> by assigning a Gödel number to any statement, you can have a statement refer
>> to itself. Hmm... you know, I've always wanted to understand the
>> incompleteness theorems in an exact or even formal level, and this is
>> something I do understand.
>>
>> So Gödel proved there is statement S (Gödel number), according to which
>> there is no statement of sequence of statements P (Another Gödel number)
>> that prove S?
>>
>> By the way, what does it mean when people say such a statement S is "true,
>> but unprovable"? Why is it true? That doesn't make any sense.
>>
>> So if that's a strange loop, well... cool. If you want to see a strange loop
>> in my theory, I guess you want to look at +11, because it includes the act
>> of thinking about the theory. There may be other strange loops as well. But
>> this strange loop could be impossible to formalize, because you can't refer
>> to +11 directly, only via D+11 and D-00.
>>
>> -Tuukka
>>
>>
>>
>> 6.1.2012 13:17, Tuukka Virtaperko kirjoitti:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>>
>>>> Ian said:
>>>>
>>>> Don't know much of your background before MoQ.fi - so just a question ...
>>>>
>>>> Your recursive loops - you are aware of Doug Hofstadter and "Strange
>>>> Loops" - level-shifting recursive loops ? (This is part of the reason
>>>> I liked where you are going ...) - the ability of recursion to create
>>>> value from nothing (much).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tuukka:
>>> No, I'm not aware of that. Better check out.
>>>
>>> I haven't been active in any community, at least in any significant
>>> extent, before 2011. Short of the mini-community between me and my
>>> mathematician friend. I guess I read ZMM in 2003? The first time, that is.
>>>
>>> -Tuukka
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>>
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