[MD] Psychology and Philosophy Pt.1

[Carl Thames]

Okay, I had a bit of inspiration, went to the 'sent mail' folder, and cut 
and pasted the reply.  I've broken it into five seperate parts, to keep the 
size managable.  Feel free to ignore any or all of it. <G>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "118" <ununoctiums at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Psychology and Philosophy


> Hi Carl,
> Happy New Year!
>
> First of all, congrats on getting back into school.  We are about the
> same age, I will be 56 this year.  At the age of 30 I went back to
> school.  During my "years of arrogance" this seemed very old to me,
> and most of those I studied with were about 6 years or more younger.
> I was called the "old man" of the lab (in jest of course).  Now at
> this age, I seem very young at that time.  My father who is 86 says
> that I am still a kid.  So, 56 is a good time to start learning again.
> Good luck with that!

Carl:
I'm keeping a 3.65 so far.  (Damn statistics anyway.)

> I am not a brainiac by any means, especially when it comes to
> metaphysics.  However, I find it fun to contemplate such things.  What
> I present is my opinion only.  Through discussion I learn much more.
> I find MoQ to be quite eclectic and enjoy mixing some of my learning
> through the years with some of those here.  What I present is always a
> work in progress.

Carl:
The attractive part of these kinds of boards, to me, is that you can say
whatever you feel, without regard to dogma.  If we go off the res, someone
may disagree with us, but we won't get any kind of official censure.  This
makes it a great place to try out new ideas.  As you say, we are all a work
in progress, (I hope) although I do worry about the negative attitude some
political hacks take toward the idea of being progressive.  What's up with
that?  I know.  Never mind.  I told someone yesterday that if I could find
someone to pay for it, I would probably be in school for the rest of my
life.  I enjoy learning.

> So, on to your comments...
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Carl Thames <cthames at centurytel.net> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Carl:
>> To begin, I appologize for taking so long to respond. I'm trying to add
>> something to the conversation, and I can't do that with a flippant 
>> response.
>> To say that I'm not very quick-witted would be an understatement, but 
>> then
>> again, I don't try to be. I have no personal dogma, per se. It's why I'm
>> back in school at the tender age of 56. (I tell people who ask that I'm
>> still trying to learn something.) I view this discussion as just that, a
>> discussion. I don't insist that anyone agree with me, and I hope I'm
>> projecting the idea that I don't necessarily agree with anyone else. It's
>> all up for discussion. I have had several changes in perspective since I
>> started reading this list, and hope to have more. Frankly, I'm not sure I
>> want to talk with people who are firm in their opinions. That doesn't 
>> mean
>> that I'm not interested in their orientation, because I can learn from 
>> that,
>> as I can from their opinions, but after a bit it becomes redundant, as 
>> I'm
>> sure you're aware.
>>
>> Having said that, I question your statement about ontology. We can 
>> perceive
>> ONLY from our own perceptions, and we have no way of knowing if they're
>> correct. As you said in another post, there is an inherent conflict of
>> interest involved there. I am fully aware that my perspective on most
>> things is different than the majority, and have heard that from several
>> different people in my life. I can't explain why, but it is. I do agree
>> with your assertion that we're trying to fit our understanding of 
>> ourselves
>> into an imperfect model. Calling that model 'psychology' or 'buddhism' or
>> 'taoism' or any other ism or ology is equally problematical.
>
> Mark:
> I believe that we have the power to extrapolate beyond our
> perceptions.  At least this is what I see the imagination as doing.
> During the day I am a scientist, and gather data which I then
> interpret.  From that I design more experiments to see what will
> happen.  It is usually the data which I do not expect that leads me to
> discovery.  Therefore, I do not consider any data meaningless.  The
> pictures I develop are extrapolations.  They are models with which I
> try to make coherent in a meaningful way.  I treat metaphysics the
> same way.  I am not a big history buff in terms of philosophers, but I
> have read my fair share.  If they make sense, I incorporate their
> frame of reference into mine, and tweak it a bit so that it feels
> right..

Carl:
What do you call that ability to extrapolate beyond our perceptions?
Intuition? Synergy? Creativity?  I think it's important, and probably what
sets us apart from the "lower" animals.  That ability does come with its own
set of problems, though.  A dog doesn't debate whether or not the shoe it is
chewing on is a Wal-Mart discount or Faragumi's.  It just chews.  It's the
ability to assign value to something that makes the difference, IMHO.  The
problem arrises when we insist on a certain level of quality.  I owned a
towing company for five years, and in addition to being the equivalent of a
Master's in Business, it also forced me to interact with a lot of people I
wouldn't normally come into contact with.  Thinking about it, it probably
also afforded the equivalent of a Master's in Applied Psychology.  I had
been a bit of an ivory tower sort of person until then.  Dealing with
everyday people in stressful situations was a real eye-opener for me.
Different people reacted in a myriad of ways, and I had to deal with all of
them.  I used the same basic approach you do.  I would try one way, if it
worked I kept using it.  If it didn't, I tried something else.  The main
thing I learned through that was that you have to deal with people at the
level they are at, not on the level you are at.  When someone is coming
apart at the seams in front of you because their car stopped functioning you
get a real insight into their basic personality.  I think that's what
evicted me from the ivory tower faster than anything.  Life went from
theoretical to practical pretty quickly.