[MD] relative

[MarshaV]

Mark,

There is nothing in the dictionary's philosophic definition of 'relativism' or the dictionary's definition of 'relative' that I posted that indicates either term to be valueless or prohibits assigning value.

---

Anthony writes:
“Intellectual values include truth, justice, freedom, democracy and, trial by jury. It’s worth noting that the MOQ follows a pragmatic notion of truth so truth is seen as relative in his system while Quality is seen as absolute.  In consequence, the truth is defined as the highest quality intellectual explanation at a given time.

RMP:
If the past is any guide to the future this explanation must be taken provisionally; as useful until something better comes along. One can then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines paintings of in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the ‘real’ painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result our history and current patterns of values. (Pirsig, 1991, p.103)”

    (McWatt,Anthony,MOQ Textbook)



Marsha 



On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:16 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes dmb,
> In translations of Buddhist philosophy the word relative is used to denote a truth which arises from absolute truth.  This is not how Marsha is using the term.  She is invoking Relativism.  Review her posts on the matter.  Maybe she has changed her mind even if she "doesn't understand what I am saying".
> 
> Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
> Mark
> 
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 12:15 PM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> dmb says:
>> Relativism is one of the main features of "the genetic defect within the nature of reason itself". It is not some wonderful Buddhist idea that serves as a solution to the problem. It is part of the problem with science and scientific objectivity. This is the problem that young Phaedrus struggled with in college (at age 14). Nine out ten doctors agree that it's important to distinguish the disease from the cure.
>> 
>> "The purpose of scientific method is to select a single truth from among many hypothetical truths. That, more than anything else, is what science is all about. But historically science has done exactly the opposite. Through multiplication upon multiplication of facts, information, theories and hypotheses, it is science itself that is leading mankind from single absolute truths to multiple, indeterminate, relative ones. The major producer of the social chaos, the indeterminacy of thought and values that rational knowledge is supposed to eliminate, is none other than science itself." (ZAMM 116)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha said to Mark:
>> I have provided plenty of examples of 'conventional truths' called 'relative' including the recent quotes I presented from the book RMP recommended ('Buddhism, Plain and Simple', by Steve Hagen) as showing the similarities between the moQ and Zen Buddhism, so please don't accuse me of "imposing the term relative on Buddhism".    
>> 
>> ...That conventional truth is relative is an extremely common utterance within Buddhism.  And, I understand it as true. ...
>> 
>>