[MD] SOPA and PIPA

MarshaV valkyr at att.net
Thu Jan 19 10:15:03 PST 2012 

Mark,

Personally, I think freedom of speech is a higher intellectual static pattern of value than profit, so the laws to prevent piracy should be carefully crafted so that to the highest degree freedom of speech is protected.  


Marsha
 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 19, 2012, at 12:33 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> 
> I would like to try to use your concept of "static patterns" in the
> SOPA and PIPA debate for purposes of consistency.  Let's call the
> current state of affairs: possible infringement of property rights on
> the internet, as a pattern which is changing.  We have to assume that
> the debate is over some real thing, and not fabricated simply to give
> the government more control over our personal rights.  To simplify,
> this change can go three ways.  It either remains as status quo, it
> becomes more infringing, or it moves to preserve property rights (if
> this is indeed the intent of the bill).
> 
> If we use your paradigm, this pattern is intertwined with other
> patterns (too many to list) and arises in a codependent manner.  If
> such arrising depends on other causes, then these causes must also be
> considered for this is more fruitful.  For example, if one feels pain,
> one can take an asprin or look to rectify the source of the pain.  The
> codependency of the current claimed "infringement" pattern should
> therefore not be rectified through a bill which targets the result and
> not the cause.  Instead, efforts must be made to address the causes.
> 
> One such cause could be considered to be a lack of personal
> responsibility.  That is, as Ian states, there are laws on the book
> which criminalize plagarism or providing quotes or clips from material
> that is copyrighted, without permission.  If indeed these laws are
> being broken we must ask why.  If I am reading Lila and ZAMM
> correctly, one sense of personal responsibility is expressed as Arete.
> That is, the expression of the highest personal quality possible.
> Here we get into a conundrum since we have two forms (to simplify, of
> course) of such personal expression.  One is for personal gain, and
> the other is for societal gain.  Sometimes these are at odds.  It is
> sometimes a battle between the biological level and the social level.
> 
> We can view our Arete as one which expresses the Greater Good, or, the
> Personal Good.  This is of course the dynamic conflict that is
> happening in Capitalism every day.  To put it another way, it is a
> battle between increasing laws and directives, and, increasing
> personal responsibility.  If we continue to regulate everything then
> personal responsibility is not required since we are told what is good
> and what is bad.  A good example would be the ban on regular light
> bulbs (which Ian and many of my friends have already gone through).
> Since we are told which kind of light bulb to buy, we do not have to
> worry so much about being responsible for how long we leave the lights
> on.  I believe there should be balance in the levels.  Perhaps the
> current bill upsets this balance, or perhaps it rebalances.
> 
> I am wondering how your view of patterns would address this levels issue.
> 
> Also, if you have any input on how your patterns view could clarify
> this current SOPA and PIPA debate I would most appreciate it.
> 
> MoQ is meant to provide us with some clarity.  This subject is a good
> opportunity in which to appy it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> Everything in this post is my personal opinion, and should not be
> construed as the position of MoQ or its participants in general.
> 
> On 1/19/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ian,
>> 
>> And I was agreeing with your point, and hopefully suggesting it might be
>> valuable to phone one's senators.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:10 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>> 
>>> My point is it's not a human rights / freedom of speech issue - it's
>>> about quality.
>>> You know, the subject of this mailing list.
>>> Ian
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Ian Glendinning
>>> <ian.glendinning at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Agreed Marsha.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:03 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>> 
>>>>> After hearing a discussion/debate on an NPR station, I called the two CT
>>>>> senators requesting they not sign either bill, but negotiate and craft
>>>>> better legislation.  Phoning was a small enough action, but more
>>>>> powerful than just holding an opinion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 19, 2012, at 3:45 AM, Ian Glendinning <ian.glendinning at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> YouTube and Wikipedia already carefully enforce IP Copyrights.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The state has always been / is always able to enforce laws, including
>>>>>> preventing law-breakers from operating illegally. Everyone is free to
>>>>>> break the law, they just need to take responsibility for the
>>>>>> consequences.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> These are just very badly drafted bills that need some practical
>>>>>> negotiation, but the principle is sound.
>>>>>> IP Copyrights need to be fairly enforceable on the internet across
>>>>>> national borders.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4099
>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16623831
>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4063
>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4059
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko
>>>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> You are asking.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The law will make State able to close YouTube, Facebook, Wikipedia and
>>>>>>> others at will.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Never.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Tuukka
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 19.1.2012 5:02, Ian Glendinning kirjoitti:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As a matter of interest Tuukka, what is your view of SOPA / PIPA ?
>>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:56 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko
>>>>>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Do you realize this stuff is happening in your home country?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://vimeo.com/31100268
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Tuukka
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