[MD] The first cut.

[118]

Hi Marsha,
I believe you are certain that you have knowledge.  Certainty implies
Truth, so you are on the right Quality track, imo.
Mark

On 1/25/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Horse,
>
> My conclusions were never based on Bo's logic, but on the natural tendency
> for consciousness to reify self and other.  And per you wishes, I have not
> brought up the subject since your ban on the topic.  I have been exploring
> the MoQ's relationship with Buddhism.  And any opinion I offered was always
> labeled my own point-of-view based on that investigation.  In fact, I always
> felt a little shabby for even saying it was my own opinion because, in fact,
> I have said nothing new.  I claim no certain knowledge of anything.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 25, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Marsha
>>
>> As I remember it you were one of Bo's supporters and subscribed to his
>> interpretation of Pirsig's MoQ.
>> Your claim then was that Bo was right and Pirsig and various others (i.e.
>> those that disagreed with Bo - which was just about everyone) were wrong.
>> In my book that makes you an interpreter with a claim!!
>>
>> Has that changed now?
>>
>> Horse
>>
>> On 25/01/2012 13:38, MarshaV wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings Horse,
>>>
>>> I know, but I don't appreciate gossip.   I am not an interpreter and
>>> never claimed to be.  I am exploring.   And maybe Mark misses me, but I
>>> wish he'd ignore my "existence".
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2012, at 8:28 AM, Horse wrote:
>>>
>>>> You've said this in the past Marsha but so far failed to last more than
>>>> a few days!
>>>>
>>>> On 24/01/2012 19:49, MarshaV wrote:
>>>>> Greetings Horse,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I mentioned last week I'm happy to sit it out for a while.  I'm
>>>>> tired of all Mark's qustions.  It might be fun to watch from the peanut
>>>>> gallery for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Horse<horse at darkstar.uk.net>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt this will make any difference to Marsha, Dave - a lot of this
>>>>>> is rooted in the SOM as Intellect debacle from some time ago. It
>>>>>> doesn't matter how much evidence you present or even if Pirsig himself
>>>>>> joined in the conversation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Horse
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/01/2012 18:40, david buchanan wrote:
>>>>>>> “A Dynamic advance is meaningless unless it can find some static
>>>>>>> pattern with which to protect itself from degeneration back to the
>>>>>>> conditions that existed before the advance was made.  Evolution can't
>>>>>>> be a continuous forward movement.  It must be a process of
>>>>>>> ratchet-like steps in which there is a Dynamic movement forward up
>>>>>>> some new incline and then, if the result looks successful, a static
>>>>>>> latching-on of the gain that has been made; then another Dynamic
>>>>>>> advance, then another static latch…” (LILA, end of Chapter 11)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Sometimes a Dynamic increment goes forward but can find no latching
>>>>>>> mechanism and so fails and slips back to a previous latched position.
>>>>>>> Whole species and cultures get lost this way. Sometimes a static
>>>>>>> pattern becomes so powerful that it prohibits any Dynamic moves
>>>>>>> forward. In both cases the evolutionary process is halted for a
>>>>>>> while. But when it's not halted the result has been an increase in
>>>>>>> power to control hostile forces or an increase in versatility or
>>>>>>> both. The increase in versatility is directed toward DQ. The increase
>>>>>>> in power to control hostile forces is directed toward static quality.
>>>>>>> Without DQ the organism cannot grow. Without static quality the
>>>>>>> organism cannot last. Both are needed." (LILA, end of chapter 11)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "When this understanding first broke through in Phaedrus' mind, that
>>>>>>> ethics and science had suddenly been integrated into a single system,
>>>>>>> he became so manic he couldn't think of anything else for days. The
>>>>>>> only time he had been more manic about an abstract idea was when he
>>>>>>> had first hit upon the idea of undefined Quality itself. The
>>>>>>> consequences of that first mania had been disastrous, and so now,
>>>>>>> this time, he told himself just to calm down and dig in. It was, for
>>>>>>> him, a great Dynamic breakthrough, but if he wanted to hang on to it
>>>>>>> he had better do some static latching as quickly and thoroughly as
>>>>>>> possible." (Lila, end of chapter 12)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Dharma, like rta, means 'what holds together.' It is the basis of
>>>>>>> all order. It equals righteousness. It is the ethical code. It is the
>>>>>>> stable condition which  gives man perfect satisfaction. ...Dharma is
>>>>>>> Quality itself, the principle of 'rightness' which gives structure
>>>>>>> and purpose to the evolution of all life and to the evolving
>>>>>>> understanding of the universe which life has created." (LILA, Chapter
>>>>>>> 30)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "No, he did nothing for Quality or the Tao.  What benefited was
>>>>>>> reason. He showed a way by which reason may be expanded to include
>>>>>>> elements that have previously been unassimilable and thus have been
>>>>>>> considered irrational." (ZAMM, p. 257)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "But now we have with us some concepts that greatly alter the whole
>>>>>>> understanding of things. Quality is the Buddha. Quality is scientific
>>>>>>> reality. Quality is the goal of Art." (ZAMM, p. 276)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I want to show that that classic pattern of rationality can be
>>>>>>> tremendously improved, expanded and made far more effective through
>>>>>>> the formal recognition of Quality in its operation." (ZAMM, p. 278)
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
>> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
>> — Frank Zappa
>>
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