[MD] : pure experience (DQ)

[118]

Hi Andre,

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Andre Broersen <andrebroersen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark to Horse:
> Believe me, I fully understand what all those mentioned below is
> saying, and I do not have any problem with the philosophy aspects of
> it.
> Andre:
> I am convinced that you do not ' fully understand'  Mark. In fact, you
> seem to understand ver little indeed.

Mark:
Could you explain that in more detail?  What am I supposed to
"understand"?  Please, explain it to me.

>
> Mark:
> In truth, I am saying the same things just in a different way.  I
> have yet to be informed of a problem that I need to address,...
>
> Andre:
> No Mark, you do not. As an example I can refer you to your wacko
> response to my criticism of your statement that ' ideas come before
> DQ' , that ' thinking is DQ'  and you, along with Marsha keep having
> problems with the distinction DQ and sq. Many on this discuss, insofar
> as they have either given up or are simply not responding to your
> drivel have indeed criticized you BUT you do not see it as such. Your
> retort has been and continues to be the line I have pasted above. You
> say: ' I just say things differently' . Well Mark, you do not. And
> when Anthony does his best to be as diplomatic as possible about your
> faulty perceptions regarding the MoQ, trying to tease out reasonably
> tolerable passages of your writing, and you respond to him in the way
> you have recently done I, along with a few other am getting pretty
> cheesed off with you. Who the fuck do you think you are Mark
> responding to Anthony in such a way?

Mark:
I'm sorry, Andre, I still do not see what philosophical point your are
making.  Are you a body guard, or just a groupie?  That is, are you
being paid for this attempt at intimidation, or do you do it out of
love?  If Ant's responses are his attempt at being diplomatic, then I
would hate to see it when he is being blunt.

How do you know that I don't "say things differently"?  What are my
faulty perceptions of Quality?  You seem to make accusations, and then
you do not back them up.  Why is that?

>
> I refer you to my earlier suggestion to get a copy of Anthony's
> PhD...Anthony has made you a very good offer and what does he get? Can
> you remember what you said? You said something like: ' Well Anthony
> hasn't given (!) me a copy yet so maby he doesn't want me to have
> one...SO DON'T BLAME ME' for not having a copy !!!!!!!!!!!!! Now what
> type of reasoning is that???

Mark:
Andre, are you working on commission here?  Is this an "offer I can't
refuse"?  Are you going to send your strong men to force me to buy it,
or just tax me if I don't?  Besides, if Ant's thesis is anything like
what he has been spouting lately, it is probably full of hate and
politics.  If I wanted to buy a copy I could, but what would be the
use in that.  At least by attending to Ant's current posts, I can see
what he believes right now.  I am getting a pretty good idea.

Your paragraphs are so bereft of quality that it does not seem you
know anything about MoQ.  Or am I wrong?  How about a little
thoughtful pondering before you hit the bottle?

>
> I have worked in psychiatry for a few years Mark. That is why I
> suggested to you to talk to someone...professionally. And the reason I
> say this is because of the following:

Well Andre, I am talking to you right now.  What side of this
"psychiatry" have you been working on?  Do you smoke cigars?

>
> Mark to Horse:
> It would appear that the quality that you create out of my posts is
> lacking.  This is not my fault, for what you are presented with is
> words on a screen.  They are neutral.  It is you and others that bring
> those words value.  All I do is write them.  So, you cannot rightly
> blame me, can you?
>
> Andre:
> Do you, Mark...at all...see the resemblance in your reasoning like to
> above? Everyone else is to blame. You are the one misunderstood. You
> are the one writing Quality. It's just that no-one else sees it. You
> are not to blame!! This, my friend is classical PD stuff. Yes, look it
> up if you want. You really need help. And you certainly won't find it
> here because you are the only one who ' completely understands the
> MoQ'  as you stated a few posts back. Boy it must be frustrating for
> you.

I am not blaming anyone.  My point was that this gut reflex some
people have to my posts is purely emotional.  Have you ever cried at a
movie?  Do you then blame the movie for crying?  That seems to be what
some contributors to the forum are doing to the words I write on a
page.  Please, get a grip, can't everybody have an opinion and present
it without being attacked for not being American enough.

Andre, do you think that a book speaks to you?  Do you think every
book means exactly the same thing to each person?  Don't you think
that you have something to do with whether you like a book or not?  If
you do not like my posts, it makes no difference to me.  I just do not
understand why you are complaining to me that you do not like them.
What am I supposed to do about that?

I still have no idea how you see Quality.  Does not what Pirsig wrote
have any meaning to you, or is the only meaning what Ant tells you?
If Ant tells you that you are wrong, do you then change your mind?
Where do you stand for yourself?  Me thinks that you have gotten too
used to the welfare state where an authority tells you what to do.
Think for yourself!  Go ahead, give it a try.  Not everybody will love
you, but those are the breaks!

Why do you bring psychiatry into a forum on MoQ?  Is it just to bug
Pirsig?  Are you saying that psychiatry is the answer for MoQ?  Well,
I do not think Pirsig would agree with you.  How is it that you have
become so bewitched by psychology anyway.

I do not need to look up what you are saying, it is clear that you
believe that psychiatry or its "science" psychology is the way of the
future.  Pity that.  Perhaps I should undergo electroconvulsive
therapy so that any notion of Quality can be wiped from my mind.  You
think?  Are you on the side of the "authorities" that did just this to
Pirsig?  What a shame if you are, I think it was criminal.  There were
much better ways to help him, if he needed it.  If you are on Pirsig's
side, then stop all this silly psychology nonsense.  People do not
need to be "cured" so that they all think alike.  We would never have
been introduced to MoQ if you had your way.

>
> Boy it must be lonely at the top. And, boy we should all be so
> grateful to have your company here. You, your eminent quality lordship
> lowering himself from his heights to be surrounded by dumb-wits who
> simply do not understand his eminence himself. ' Cannot create quality
> out of my posts' ? Of course...do not blame Mark.

Well, Andre, those are your words not mine.  Is this the way you feel
about your existence?  Is it that you wish you were at the top?  I
have never uttered such nonsense, nor would I.  I do not believe in
leaders or followers.  You my friend are a follower.  Does your
defense of your leader grant you some kind of points?  Please, get off
my back and go back to whatever you were doing before you decided to
give me a "piece of your mind".  It is very boring you know.
>
> Get a life Mark. Get out of here.

What is with this insane rant of yours?  Did you have a bad day at
work?  Why so frustrated with somebody you have never met?  Have I
hurt you in some way?  Is this the typical way you react when you read
something that you do not agree with?  I would hate to be in a book
club with you.

You my friend, would do well to follow your advice.  Ant can take care
of himself, he does not need an attack dog.  If you feel that Ant is
helpless, then you should discuss that with him.  Is Ant some kind of
china doll to you?

You do not have to read my posts if they disturb you.  Besides you
never responded to my critique that you believed that MoQ was not
about Quality.  I am not sure what you think MoQ is, but it certainly
is not what you think it is.

I am doing my best to be patient with you, Andre.  But you are acting
like a petulant child.  Next time, please write something somewhat
intelligent.  How about discussing a metaphysics of Quality.  It may
do you good.

Take care of yourself,
Mark

> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html