[MD] Intellectual level of MOQ

[Jan Anders Andersson]

Hi David and John

Yes, I was about to write someting like that. For a concept or static pattern to not belong to the social level, it has to be independent from both individual or any other social grouping. A sign carved on a stone pointing to a well of water for ex...
  Then comes the question if there are other social patterns like ants or anteloupes that have access to intellectual patterns. If we put the same criteria that it shall in some way affect the species without any individual connection. The only thing I can come up with is time. Deteriation by age forces them to breed and hand over information, concepts to younger members. Elephants for example know their area and where to find water. The female leader shows the younger where to go and they memorize the tracks. They seem to have a common map over their territory.
  I think that they have som strategy for the change of seasons too which means that they must have some kind of concept for time.

Just some words that might help you.

Jan Anders

18 jul 2012 kl. 22:10 skrev David Thomas <combinedefforts at earthlink.net>:

> John,
> 
> Welcome to the "reality" of MoQ.org. As others have mentioned there has been
> a long running disagreement here about the nature of the upper two static
> levels. Particularly the intellectual.
> 
> The only way I have been able to square Pirsig's writing and comments on the
> intellectual level is by separating "intellect" (the capacity of the brain
> to abstract and reason) from "intellectual", which doesn't emerge until
> groups are literate. Intellectual artifacts, writing both words and numbers,
> are at least three levels of abstraction removed from experience. The key to
> this split is that the information persists independent from the author and
> can be shared, critiqued, modified, and debunked and/or improved over time.
> 
> 
> But like Ian I'm more comfortable with just three levels, maybe,
> physical-biological-cultural. Kant to the most recent neurological studies
> suggest that "reason" or "intellect" is anything but pure. And trying to
> definitively classify any particular pattern as "intellectual" in our modern
> "media is the message" world is nearly impossible.
> 
> Happy editing,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
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