[MD] an apple

[MarshaV]

Hi Mark,

Every paragraph is exciting...  RMP, Schopenhauer, Nagarjuna, Buddha...   Does something need to be said about great minds, or would that be assuming too much about my own ability to recognize and understand great thoughts?  

Is the countryside even the countryside?  Yes?  No?  All of the above?   And without space, time and causation does 'down' or 'out' matter much when it comes to analogy?  

I think I'll take a paragraph, find some Beethoven and paint this morning.  

"Dynamic Quality is defined constantly by everyone. Consciousness can be described is a process of defining Dynamic Quality. But once the definitions emerge, they are static patterns and no longer apply to Dynamic Quality. So one can say correctly that Dynamic Quality is both infinitely definable and undefinable because definition never exhausts it."
    (RMP,LILA's Child)


Marsha 





On Jul 26, 2012, at 3:19 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> As far as I am concerned, any reading is good.  I find that I use my
> readings to expand my awareness of existence.  Thank you for the
> references.
> 
> I believe that it is NOT "analogies all the way down".  I believe that
> it IS "analogies all the way out".  It is a big difference since we
> create those analogies.  We are creating all these things whether they
> be for the purposes of causation, or result.  It starts right here and
> spreads outward.  We are points of light illuminating existence.  It
> all starts with Quality, putting together a metaphysics of such is
> like trying to make a map.  Such maps are analogies, but they are
> certainly not the countryside.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> On 7/24/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I did read Schopenhauer's (fourth edition) published essay of 'On the
>> Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason', but of course it was
>> published 1877 and was very much a response to the science and philosophy of
>> the day; and because I am not a Schopenhauerian scholar I would miss all
>> this and therefore I very much appreciate Bryan Magee's presentation.
>> Magee's 'The Philosophy of Schopenhauer' has the added benefit of presenting
>> the material having had exposure to all Schopenhauer's written work
>> including his letters.  But you are correct that Bryan Magee has formed his
>> opinions with personal biases built in.
>> 
>> The other book I am reading is 'On Schopenhauer's Fourfold Root of the
>> Principle of Sufficient Reason' by F. C. White.  White is a materialist and
>> is criticizing the work from that perspective.  He offers quite a different
>> point-of-view, for instance he seems to conflate mention of both brain and
>> mind to that physical mass in the head, and he seems quite comfortable
>> equating consciousness with brain chemistry.   There are quite different
>> criticisms being presented that Magee never even suggested.  It's quite an
>> astounding difference.
>> 
>> I am not reading of Schopenhauer to adopt his philosophical system, but more
>> to introduce some interesting questions into the inquiry and discussion of
>> the Metaphysics of Quality and Buddhism, and to include more of a Western
>> perspective.  Already I have a better understanding of Berkeley, Locke, Hume
>> and Kant; Magee is an excellent writer and I am enjoying this little side
>> adventure.  I hope to eventually to move on to Whitehead and Popper.  BUT,
>> and it is a big but, for me it's still analogy and all the way down. :-)
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 5:49 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> That is interesting.  I have been reading translations of
>>> Schopenhauer, and not analyses of what he wrote.  So my impressions
>>> come from my reading his essays.  I would have to check a book out
>>> again, from the library, to see exactly what it was that led me to
>>> that.  It was probably a mix of a variety of essays.
>>> 
>>> I will have to keep what you say in mind when I do read some more.
>>> Actually, a few weeks ago I downloaded some free books of S. from
>>> Kindle.  There are a lot of such free books, that I would actually pay
>>> for.  I guess one person's trash is another's treasure.
>>> 
>>> Often I do not like the way philosophologist encapsulate philosophers.
>>> Often I get something different from writings of philosphers than
>>> what is normally presented.  That is just me of course.  I don't like
>>> all these rules and regulations when it comes to describing ones own
>>> reality.  Others seem to find more comfort in knowing what they
>>> believe is correct because others believe the same.  There are some in
>>> this forum who think that they have got Quality figured out
>>> metaphysically.  But I would not be so sure.  That they would think
>>> that they perfectly understand reality through Quality is somewhat
>>> suspect.  Yet they continue to claim they have the right way to
>>> present Quality in metaphysical terms.  Or, on the other hand, they
>>> claim they are not talking about Quality at all.  Go figure....
>>> 
>>> You, as always, are a breath of fresh air.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On 7/24/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>> 
>>>> According to Magee, Schopenhauer uses the word 'will' in three senses.
>>>> The
>>>> third meaning is his own invention to represent the Noumenon.  "'Will'
>>>> in
>>>> Schopenhauer's third sense is not conative at all, unless by
>>>> coincidence.
>>>> It has no necessary reference to anything to do with life, personality,
>>>> consciousness, inner sense or aim.".   So I don't know how you connect
>>>> this
>>>> with the term 'Intention'.  It sounds more similar to Dynamic Quality,
>>>> and
>>>> Schopenhauer's 'representatives' sound like a cross between Platos Ideas
>>>> and
>>>> RMP's static patterns.  But again this is very early in my
>>>> investigation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 1:09 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>> I was not asking you to defend yourself, I think we are on the same
>>>>> side.
>>>>> What S calls Will is what I term "Intention".  I have presented this
>>>>> many
>>>>> times in terms of a metaphysical representation of Quality.  It's all
>>>>> in
>>>>> the archives.  I find S to be compelling and instructive with regard to
>>>>> MoQ, and have said so in the past.  Much better than James in my
>>>>> opinion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Happy reading,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 8:15 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no intentions of defending myself or this quote this morning
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> than to say I am intrigued by Schopenhauer's philosophy.  At this time
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> am concentrating on 'On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of
>>>>>> Sufficient
>>>>>> Reason'.  I've read Bryan Magee's presentation, Schopenhauer's fourth
>>>>>> edition, and now I am reading book containing a critical analysis of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 'Fourfold' by a materialist.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 'On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason' is
>>>>>> suppose
>>>>>> to lay the foundation for Schopenhauer's work.  I don't think he can
>>>>>> rightly be called a subject-object philosopher.  What Schopenhauer has
>>>>>> labeled 'Will' is something beyond the normal definitions and
>>>>>> represents
>>>>>> a force that comes prior to subject and object, though it cannot be
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> to be Value either.  I also find it curious that he is not taken more
>>>>>> seriously by modern philosophers.  Will I've just begun my
>>>>>> investigation
>>>>>> so there is little more I can say.  Magee is such a wonderful writer
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> has quite peaked my interest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2012, at 10:01 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Marsha,