[MD] humpty dumpty

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 9:28 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> [Arlo]
> You may want to read Charles Peirce's Essay "The Fixation of Belief", it is a well-argued pragmatist (or pragmaticist, to use Peirce's slight differentiation) understanding of how beliefs come to be held, what it takes for them to recognized as "in need of reevaluation" and the various methods used for moving back from 'doubt' to 'belief'. Its available in full online here:
>
> http://www.peirce.org/writings/p107.html
>
> Ron replies:
> Great link Arlo and it was very applicable to the question raised about verification and pure experience. I think this
> part said it best:
> " A different new method of settling opinions must be adopted, that shall not only produce an impulse to believe, but shall also decide what proposition it is which is to be believed. Let the action of natural preferences be unimpeded, then, and under their influence let men, conversing together and regarding matters in different lights, gradually develop beliefs in harmony with natural causes. This method resembles that by which conceptions of art have been brought to maturity. The most perfect example of it is to be found in the history of metaphysical philosophy. Systems of this sort have not usually rested upon any observed facts, at least not in any great degree. They have been chiefly adopted because their fundamental propositions seemed "agreeable to reason." This is an apt expression; it does not mean that which agrees with experience, but that which we find ourselves inclined to believe. "
>
> Ron continues:
> Now if MoQ is an extension of Pragmatism and also an extension of Bhuddism (an American form) forwarded as such by Ant,
> then it stands to reason that both Pragmatism and Bhuddism share an inclination toward belief.
> Interesting. Too bad this was missed.

Dan:

It was missed because it is wrong. The MOQ isn't about belief or
faith. It says the world begins with experience. Direct experience.
Belief involves intellect. Belief comes later, when we intellectually
define the moment.

belief

1.  An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2.  Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

A belief isn't knowing. It is an assumption based on opinion. When you
know something it is unshakable. I cannot reproduce the diagram Steve
Hagen uses in his book (if you don't have it, buy it) but here is an
excerpt. I think Mr. Hagen can be taken as as expert on Western zen:

“If it's Truth we're after, we'll find that we cannot start with any
assumptions or concepts whatsoever. Instead, we must approach the
world with bare, naked attention, seeing it without any mental bias -
without concepts, beliefs, preconceptions, presumptions, or
expectations.” [Buddhism: Plain and Simple]

Dan comments:
By waking up to direct experience we no longer believe the world is
this way or that way. We know. There is an important difference but I
suppose you must see that for yourself.

Thank you,

Dan

http://www.danglover.com