[MD] dark night

[118]

Hi Joe,
In my opinion, metaphysics is a discipline which describes reality.  In any description the words must be understood, and therefore have definitions.  When you say "undefinable", that is a definition that we can understand.  However, it depends on how you use the word.  This undefinable could mean we are aware of something but cannot put it into words.  Is this what you mean by undefinable?

If so, could you describe your awareness of the undefinable?

Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
Mark

On Jun 22, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Marsha and all,
> 
> Metaphysics!  In etymology metaphysics acknowledges a discipline beyond
> physics.  
> 
> Pirsig suggested that indefinable/definable DQ/SQ manifests reality.
> 
> Physics which uses defined mathematics for describing existence cannot
> embrace logically an indefinable principle.  Metaphysics MOQ accepts the
> indefinable principle DQ.
> 
> Going round and round on that merry-go-round forces my attention to
> existence.  IMHO Metaphysics is a description of Evolution as levels in
> existence.  
> 
> Pirsig's metaphysics DQ/SQ seem to describe the existing level DQ, as
> knowable while remaining indefinable.  Off the top of my head levels in
> existence seem to answer what is evolution?  The power of metaphysics.
> 
> IMHO If you can know DQ you can observe that it manifests levels in
> existence.  Reality is not a one size fits all existence.  Metaphysics
> accepting an indefinable element Dq opens the door to the reality of
> evolution as levels in existence DQ/SQ.
> 
> Awareness DQ trumps mathematical logic.
> 
> Joe  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/21/12 4:41 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> If evolution is the pattern that interests you than my post had little to
>> offer you.  What is your understanding of 'metaphysics'?
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 21, 2012, at 2:35 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> 
>>> Metaphysics formats knowledge.  How is it possible for DQ, a metaphysical
>>> term, to be unknowable?  That would place it outside Metaphysics into a
>>> basket of Faith.  Indivisible could be a characteristic of indefinable?  For
>>> me to see reality as indivisible negates evolution, and I am not ready to
>>> make that jump.
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/21/12 1:44 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dynamic Quality isn't any thing.  It isn't 'dark night', or chaos; it is
>>>> unpatterned; it is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable.
>>> 
>>> 
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