[MD] First Division 2.0

[118]

Hi Joe,


Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
Mark

On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Joseph  Maurer <jhmau at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi David,
> 
> A logic of a metaphysics of DQ/SQ, begs the question:  How can an
> indefinable DQ have meaning?

It doesn't, we create meaning through definitions.  The term undefinable is used so we do not get stuck in the static.  Nothing more in my opinion.

> In SOM S depends on O activity in the definition in existence.  S has no
> definition in existence awaiting O's behavior.

Yes they go together in that paradigm.

> 
> Different activities determine a reality manifesting existence.  Evolution,
> a definable activity in existence, is not founded on deniable faith.  It
> manifests a logic of activity.

Yes
> 
> The truth of reality in logic for metaphysics is a nightmare of deniability.

I'm not sure if I would agree.  We create  truth, we do not deny it.

> The reality of evolutionary levels in differences for S's manifestations is
> deniable.  It awaits an interpretation of the manifestation in action.

Sure it can be denied through some logical construct.  What lies between subject and object is Intent.  Look to intent instead of S or O.  That resolved the issue, for me.

> Evolution is deniable.  No one can give what he doesn't have. Evolution as
> the answer for levels in existence is deniable.  Physical logic instead of
> indefinable metaphysics!

Sure it can be denied, but it can also bring meaning.
> 
> Pirsig tweaked S/O metaphysics by changing indescribable S to DQ, an
> indefinable reality.  O as SQ remains.

I think so, the "self" is DQ.  It cannot be logically found or described, yet it exists.
> 
> DQ, indefinable reality, has a relationship to existence. DQ is not the same
> as the S of SOM which sucks existence from O.  

I think O sucks existence from S, although I would not put it that way.

> DQ has a place in indefinable
> existence awaiting valuation not non-existence. SOM and MOQ.  DQ/SQ is a
> statement of an indefinable/definable reality.
> 
> A statement of metaphysics: the concept of evolution describes reality in
> existential differences as evolution in levels in existence.  DQ is
> indefinable levels in existence. Indefinable not unknowable or non-existent!
> 
> MOQ, Evolution is not a reality in SOM. S exists independently from O in
> reality.  DQ does not depend on SQ for existence. It creates a new paradigm
> DQ/SQ where DQ is indefinable not non-existent, SQ is definable.

Yes, by your usage of evolution.  DQ does not depend on sq.
> 
> Imho  In MOQ different levels in reality in existence. Evolution has
> meaning.  
> 
> SOM differs from MOQ in using Object as enabling possibilities in a Subject
> without defining how the subject participates in evolution as a level in
> existence.  

Yes
> 
> In SOM freewill, seeks another for further definition in existence. Without
> the other it is not free.  It is orphaned in being removed from the
> existence in the subject and highlighted as a special function in relation
> to another instead of being the will of the subject.
> 
That makes sense to me.  Will is what lies between S and O.

> In SOM, levels in evolution have no foundation in the existence of the
> subject.  They only have meaning in the object and have their meaningful
> relationship to the subject through the object and evolution is meaningless.
> Metaphysics of the known also follow the existence of the subject for unique
> qualities like free will.

I think this is the distinction between sq and DQ.  The levels are a static presentation and DQ is not dependent on them.
> 
> I don't define DQ!  While pondering an indefinable existing reality emotions
> shouted look at us!  The best of both worlds.

Cool, you should write poetry.
Mark
> 
> Joe    
> 
> 
> On 3/2/12 1:48 PM, "David Harding" <davidjharding at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Furthermore, why do you see value in defining the undefinable DQ as
>> 'emotions'?
> 
> 
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