[MD] Why are things called patterns?

[David Harding]

Hi Craig,


> [David]
>> Ideas come before hawks and mice.
> 
> I realize this is your view, but as Marsha has pointed out, for the MoQ the order is inorganic,
> biological, social and intellectual spov.  

Once again - how do you know this Craig?  These are ideas which you communicate to me. Yes, they are *good* ideas. It's a *good* idea that matter comes before ideas.  So good it's a part of the MOQ itself.  But remember, we are talking. And we can only ever talk in ideas. I'll repeat the Pirsig quote.. Maybe you missed it the first time....

"The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which produce what we know as matter." - Lila's Child. 

> 
> [Craig, previously]
>> A hawk circles overhead, then swoops down on a mouse. How does it distinguish the mouse from
>> everything else around?  By patterns.
> 
> [David]
>> I can easily come back and say how do you 'know' that a hawk does that?
> 
> There have been many experiments in pattern recognition in animals, including birds.
> You reject a lot of good science by holding a bad metaphysics.

How is it a bad metaphysics when I agree with what you have written and tell you that it is a good idea? You're the one disagreeing with me remember... So imagine, just for a second, what I hold is a good metaphysics, even just for a second...

The reason why we 'know' that animals detect patterns is because we have interpreted the results, the data, of our experiments - with our human minds.  The only way we know that animals detect patterns is because we detect those patterns ourselves and say... 'that there is a pattern of a baby bird opening it's mouth each time it senses its mother'.  It is all intellectual.  The source of our knowledge of the physical world is intellectual. It's a *good* idea to think that there is a big bad world out there, but it is just that. An idea. You keep communicating to me ideas. There's no way around it Craig.  Remember I said it's a *good* idea. A *Good* idea to think that matter came first... 

-David.