[MD] Contradiction and incoherence.

[Jan-Anders Andersson]

Hi Marsha

I think our Western type of experience has something to tell the guys on the streets of the East with their waterpipes and handmade sitars:

http://youtu.be/RVGrsH57Pl0

best wishes

Jan Anders


21 mar 2012 kl. 22.44 skrev moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org:

> This is supported by Herbert Guenther 204 (1957, p.144) who adds: 
> 
> Experience is the central theme of Buddhism, not theoretical postulation and deductive verification. Since no experience occurs more than once and all repeated experiences actually are only analogous occurrences, it follows that a thing or material substance can only be said to be a series of events interpreted as a thing, having no more substantiality than any other series of events we may arbitrarily single out. 
> 
> After some thought, I think Guenther?s comment is valid as I can?t think of any events that are repeated exactly. Moreover, like the concept of ?self?, there?s no absolute objective rule to judge when one event starts and another stops. This means that any concept or term is fundamentally indeterminate, imprecise and, as time passes, increasingly less useful.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2012, at 4:53 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 5.8.4. THE MOQ, DUKKHA AND AVIDYA (IGNORANCE) It?s fairly obvious from reading Pirsig?s texts that SOM is perceived by him as an example of ignorant thinking. Briefly, this is due to such systems ignoring the reality of Dynamic Quality. Why this is particularly ignorant is explained by the ?Three Aspects? of the Cittamatra school of Mahayana Buddhism. 201 
>> 
>> Williams (1988, p.83) states that the First Aspect refers to the falsifying activity of language which implies independent and permanent existence to things. As Hagen 202 (1997, p.30) notes, one of the most fundamental truths noted by the Buddha is that all aspects of our experience are in constant flux and change. According to the Buddha, when a person ignores this truth they subject themselves to dukkha. 
>> 
>> _Dukkha_ has been notorious in evading exact translation to English. Hagen (1997, p.25) notes that the word is originally derived from a Sanskrit word referring to a wheel out-of-kilter. 203
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2012, at 4:49 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Like Pirsig, Nishida follows the thought of Nagarjuna and rejects the SOM ?object logic? conceptualisation of reality. Instead, Nishida uses the more Eastern orientated ?concrete logic? (or ?logic of nothingness?) which perceives reality as holistic and constantly changing; where identities are momentary (and, therefore, always ?negating? themselves). A theme prevalent in Nishida?s ?concrete logic? (as well as the MOQ and much of Buddhist thought), is the recognition of the ?self? as just a useful abstraction."
>>> 
>>>      (MoQ Textbook) 
>>> 
>>> 
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