[MD] DMB's friends

118 ununoctiums at gmail.com
Sun Mar 25 18:11:10 PDT 2012 

Hi Tuukka,
I think this is a silly question.  All we do is provide posts for
others to read.  If such readers find themselves wasting their time,
then that is their problem.  A conversation takes two people, each
side is responsible.  Just keep on posting, I learn something from
what you write.  Stop this victim nonsense, you are unique and grand.
This is not a forum for feeling justified; it is not a forum for old
static men.

I started working on my project, again, which is an analysis of parts
of Lila using reverse cryptology.  This is similar to how Kabalah
analyzes the old testament and other documents.  Some may say that
such scholars are out of their minds, but I have found otherwise.
Language is the use of symbols, and such symbols can be analyzed in
many ways.  Contextual meaning is just a superficial manner in which
to do this.  The use of an appropriate cypher is required to decrypt
passages, which is the difficult part (and has occupied me for several
years now).  However, I am now suddenly making headway.  You would not
believe what such an analysis shows Lila as presenting!  It is indeed
an age old and Perennial Philosophy.

To those of you who have no interest in this, this post is not for
you, so please do not complain; carry on with your own projects
whatever they may be.

Cheers,
Mark

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Tuukka Virtaperko
<mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
> Everyone,
> I asked DMB, who on this mailing list does he like or consider a good
> conversationalist. He didn't answer. I'm curious... so now I'll ask
> everyone, who likes DMB or considers him a good conversationalist?
>
> Also, I have never meant to be a burden. Is DMB right that I'm wasting
> everyone's time? Should I consider ceasing to post in this forum? What do
> you think?
>
> -Tuukka
>
>
>
> 25.3.2012 23:34, david buchanan wrote:
>>
>> If you don't want to play along, that's fine. But now you've posted more
>> than anyone else in this thread and yet you are not playing. You are
>> interfering with the game, changing the subject to the wonderfulness of you
>> and otherwise wasting everybody's time. If you don't care to play, then
>> don't post on this thread. Or in this forum.
>> It's like the drivel masters are hell bent on making sure that quality
>> conversations can never happen. Every decent conversation is murdered in its
>> crib.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:21:47 +0300
>>> From: mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Dewey's Zen
>>>
>>> DMB,
>>> see, I've been playing this same game for a couple of years already -
>>> reading more mainstream philosophy (I agree that "Dewey's Zen" is not a
>>> pure example of "mainstream"), finding concepts that are intended to be
>>> something the MOQ expresses better, and replacing them - writing pages
>>> and pages of notes for myself. So no, I don't play games with that,
>>> because it's already something I do systematically. If I want to do that
>>> to "Dewey's Zen", I'm more likely to borrow the entire book and read at
>>> least fifty pages. I don't mean to put you down by not playing your
>>> game. I do understand your game, and playing games is how this more
>>> serious approach got started.
>>>
>>> -Tuukka
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 25.3.2012 23:13, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Look, DMB,
>>>> I don't have time for this bullshit. You posted an useful article, I
>>>> wanted to thank you for that. I guess I just couldn't believe you
>>>> actually do think it's good to reject positive things other people
>>>> give, such as respect. I'm not interested in playing your game,
>>>> because it is not relevant practice for my work. I was interested in
>>>> the article you posted. You were useful for me, but in a way which you
>>>> did not intend, and now you seem to say this implies that I'm stupid.
>>>> Talk about drivel.
>>>>
>>>> -Tuukka
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 25.3.2012 21:55, david buchanan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> dmb says:
>>>>> Thanks for playing along, Dan. I'm going to withhold comment and hope
>>>>> others take a shot at it to too. (Since Tuukka doesn't seem to
>>>>> understand the core concept of this game, you're the only one to
>>>>> participate so far.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:37 PM, david
>>>>>> buchanan<dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This might be fun but it's also a kind of experiment. I was reading
>>>>>>> a paper and saw many parallels to Pirsig, which wasn't very
>>>>>>> surprising because it's titled "Dewey's Zen". But I wonder if
>>>>>>> others read it the same way I do. In certain passages it seems like
>>>>>>> one could plug Pirsig's terms into the sentences and they'd still
>>>>>>> mean the same thing - almost exactly. Telling you more than that -
>>>>>>> like which terms I had in mind - it would ruin the experiment. How
>>>>>>> about if I just post a bit of it and let everyone take a shot at
>>>>>>> it? Maybe it would be fun to put in Pirsig's terms wherever you
>>>>>>> think they would fit. Take your pick or play with them all, but
>>>>>>> please be explicit enough to let me know if you're seeing the same
>>>>>>> thing that I'm seeing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David
>>>>>> Been editing one of my books most of the evening... I love the
>>>>>> writing... the editing, not so much... but since I cannot afford to
>>>>>> pay someone to do it, it falls to me. Anyway, I thought I'd throw out
>>>>>> a few ideas to chew on...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...experiences come whole, pervaded by unifying qualities that
>>>>>>> demarcate them within the flux of our lives. If we want to find
>>>>>>> meaning, or the basis for meaning, we must therefore start with the
>>>>>>> qualitative unity that Dewey describes. The demarcating pervasive
>>>>>>> quality is, at first, unanalyzed, but it is the basis for
>>>>>>> subsequent analysis, thought, and development. Thought starts from
>>>>>>> this experienced whole, and only then does it introduce
>>>>>>> distinctions that carry it forward as inquiry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> The author seems to be saying the same thing that RMP says when he
>>>>>> talks about Quality coming first, and how ideas arise from 'it'. The
>>>>>> qualifiers the author uses seem contradictory on the surface though it
>>>>>> is possible I'm not seeing things properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             It is not wrong to say that we experience objects,
>>>>>>> properties, and relations, but it is wrong to say that these are
>>>>>>> primary in experience. What are primary are pervasive qualities of
>>>>>>> situations, within which we subsequently discriminate objects,
>>>>>>> properties, and relations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> See... the author subtly shifts here into saying these qualities are
>>>>>> pervasive and the demarcation only happens later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Dewey took great pains to remind us that the primary locus of
>>>>>>> human experience is not atomistic sense impressions, but rather
>>>>>>> what he called a "situation," by which he meant, not just our
>>>>>>> physical setting, but the whole complex of physical, biological,
>>>>>>> social, and cultural conditions that constitute any given
>>>>>>> experience—experience taken in its fullest, deepest, richest,
>>>>>>> broadest sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> A minor quibble here... in the MOQ, experience is synonymous with
>>>>>> Dynamic Quality. Static quality comes later... inorganic, biological,
>>>>>> social, intellectual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mind, on this view, is neither a willful creator of experience, nor
>>>>>>> is it a mere window to objective mind-independent reality. Mind is
>>>>>>> a functional aspect of experience that emerges when it becomes
>>>>>>> possible for us to share meanings, to inquire into the meaning of a
>>>>>>> situation, and to initiate action that transforms, or remakes, that
>>>>>>> situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> To respond to Dynamic Quality, in other words...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pervasive quality of a situation is not limited merely to
>>>>>>> sensible perception or motor interactions. Thinking is action, and
>>>>>>> so "acts of thought" also constitute situations that must have
>>>>>>> pervasive qualities. Even our best scientific thinking stems from
>>>>>>> the grasp of qualities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> "Acts of thought" are ideas? Is that what I'm understanding here? And
>>>>>> yes, the MOQ would seem to agree that ideas are as 'real' as inorganic
>>>>>> and biological patterns... they exist on different evolutionary
>>>>>> levels, however.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And perhaps my favorite....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             The crux of Dewey's entire argument is that what we
>>>>>>> call thinking, or reasoning, or logical inference could not even
>>>>>>> exist without the felt qualities of situations: "The underlying
>>>>>>> unity of qualitativeness regulates pertinence or relevancy and
>>>>>>> force of every distinction and relation; it guides selection and
>>>>>>> rejection and the manner of utilization of all explicit terms."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>> I should think that in the MOQ, culture is the regulating force of
>>>>>> distinctions and relations... remember how Phaedrus read about the sun
>>>>>> flashing green before he actually looked up and 'saw' it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.danglover.com
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>> Archives:
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>
>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>> Archives:
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>
>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>> Archives:
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>
>>
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html

More information about the Moq_Discuss mailing list