[MD] Dewey's Zen

[David Harding]

Hi Ant,

When you say Dynamic here, am I to assume you mean Dynamic Quality? So are you saying, for instance, that a philosophy discussion as it is happening is Dynamic Quality?  Or are you saying that your use of the term Dynamic is something else entirely? I know from experience discussing the MOQ here; that a lot of confusion begins when we get into these details.. 

-David.


On 29/03/2012, at 1:28 AM, Ant McWatt wrote:

> 
> Andre,
> 
> There might be one or two other terms I used in David's exercise that need clarifying but it's good someone is taking note of at least one!
> 
> You stated March 28th:
> 
>> I seem to remember Pirsig saying the same thing during the AHP 
> 
>> conference, that, as soon as you start conceptualizing, thinking about 
> 
>> it, the activity of symbol manipulation, you are in the static. That is, 
> 
>> the activity is a static exercise/a static process following static rules.
> 
> The exact quote would be helpful but, yes, Pirsig has written/said similar elsewhere.  But to clarify, I'd say the activity of conceptualising is Dynamic (i.e. the creative artistic part) while the rules and symbols themselves are static.  
> 
> For instance, while I write this e-mail, that 
> is Dynamic.  By the time you read it, it will be static.  A philosophy 
> discussion is Dynamic - while it happens.  A recording of the discussion
> will be static.  Same with a philosophy book (it's a static product of a - largely - Dynamic process).  Moreover, any NEW thoughts you
> have inspired by the philosophy book (or my e-mail or the discussion) 
> is Dynamic.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Anthony. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:08:18 +0200
>> From: andrebroersen at gmail.com
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Dewey's Zen
>> 
>> Andre:
>> Thank you Anthony and dmb for presenting us with both your versions of 
>> this fun experiment.
>> 
>> I do have a question though with regards to what Anthony said which has 
>> nagged me for quite some time prior to this as well.
>> Anthony said:
>> Thinking is [Dynamic but] could not even exist without the felt 
>> qualities of [the aesthetic continuum]:
>> 
>> Andre:
>> I understand that 'thinking' is a (let's for clarity's sake say) ongoing 
>> process/activity. But is it "Dynamic" (with a capital D)?
>> 
>> My understanding of Dynamic, as used within the MOQ is that its result 
>> is always new (because it shatters static patterns) and that it is 
>> 'arrived' at at that moment of not-thinking/not intellectualizing (This 
>> is how I read the example in ZMM of Poincaré and e.g. the classroom 
>> method...and the heart attack patient and the person experiencing a 
>> storm and the hearing of this wonderful new song).
>> 
>> I seem to remember Pirsig saying the same thing during the AHP 
>> conference, that, as soon as you start conceptualizing, thinking about 
>> it, the activity of symbol manipulation, you are in the static. That is, 
>> the activity is a static exercise/a static process following static rules.
>> 
>> I mean, in ZMM the narrator 'laments' the realization that he hasn't had 
>> a new thought in years. I presume he wasn't walking around as a zombie. 
>> No, he just kept his nose clean, did odd jobs here and there and lived 
>> an 'ordinary' family life. I wonder how many of us are in that same 
>> boat. We may think we are wonderfully dynamic and what have you, but 
>> most appear just variations on the same theme(this is my understanding 
>> of static quality patterns).
>> 
>> A bit like Pirsig's comment on the activities of the conservatives: 
>> "They are just doing the usual cover-up for the rich in their age-old 
>> exploitation of the poor". (LILA, p 225) And, let's be honest: they come 
>> up with some very creative ideas but still... .
>> 
>> What am I missing? I would really appreciate some clarification on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
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