[MD] reifying carrots

[Ian Glendinning]

Agreed - shouldn't have used "just" there, but my point is the same ...

For example : Not sure "rational" necessarily implies the more
holistic wisdom you suggest. Could just as easily imply a narrower
logical objective intellectual view ... this is why I say the
ultimately it's not the words but the narrow / wide definitions and
distinctions we're actually using.

The implications / baggage of each word are infinitely variable.
Definitions are "just" definitions.

It's not that I underestimate the scale of the problem, but that I
want to debate what matters, not the words and their definitions.

As for your "should be" suggestion - as I say I'm easy - I offered Bo
et all both options, and offer the same to you. But whatever we agree,
it's important to move on to what matters. There is something more
that a "good mind" can do than GOF-subject-objective-logical-rational
intellect - that much we all agree on.

Ian

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:33 PM,  <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> And I'd say it's a bigger issue than you realize or signify with your pejorative "just", Ian.
>
> <ian.glendinning at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd be OK with that John,
>>
>> But as I say it's just about choosing which word you prefer for each
>> .... err .... concept.
>>
>> Ian
>
>
> It's a much bigger issue you see, because rationality and intellectuality are two distinct concepts, representing completely different modes of thinking.
>
> The easiest way I can think of describing the differences between the two is by showing you examples of how we use these terms in the real world.  For instance, if you went to a high school prom and intellectualized the dancing, that would be irrational.  If you sat on a hot stove, and intellectuallized getting off, that would be irrational.  An animal that was biting itself or acting against its own self-interest, we would call irrational.  We would not call it unintellectual because only humans intellectualize.  Art is rational.  Art criticism is intellectual.
>
> Intellectualizing always implies objectifying and alienation.  Rationality implies holistic understanding.  Intellect is analytic, rationality is synthetic.  Intellect is dependent upon the subject/object divide, but rationality is dependent upon ratio and context.  Intellectualism subverts artistic endeavor, while all true art is a rational attempt to create a meaningful expression of experience.
>
> So it's not just a matter of an arbitrary choice of semantics but two actual distinctive words for different mental concepts. I'd go further and say that intellectuality is a subset of rationality.  That rationality embraces both hemispheres of the brain, whereas intellectuality is the name we give to classical reason.
>
> And this in a nutshell, is why I believe the 4th level should be deemed rational, and not merely intellectual.
>
> Take Care,
>
> John
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