[MD] reifying carrots

[ridgecoyote at gmail.com]

Well, I must admit.  Y'all gave me quite a smile.  So there is that.  I don't know if there is any room for discussion of the following;  I assure you of one thing for sure, I disagree completely with Bo's assertion that the 4th level is SOM. but on the other hand, I also disagree vehemently with Pirsig's assertion that its intellectual.  

So since I'm so much less bright than Pirsig, you or anybody on this discuss, maybe I should just shut up and let y'all enlighten me as to what is good and what is not good, and keep my low quality opinions to myself?  

Probably. Seems a funny way to run a "discussion" tho.  In my very humble opinion. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

> Dear Ridge Coyote
> 
> On 04/05/2012 22:09, ridgecoyote at gmail.com wrote:
>> There was this one place in ZAMM, that really rang my bell: it was where Phaedrus was confronted with a rejection of himself and his ideas and thinking and rather than accept it all like a bleating sheep, he chose option B.  Rather than slinking out the back door in a sheepish fashion, he chose to front up and wolfishly challenge his detractors to kick him out the front door.
> 
> Yeah, I've heard this line so many times before and it still doesn't wash - neither you or Marsha are Pirsig, or anywhere near as bright so don't try and pretend you are. If you can't or won't follow the rules you signed up to because it no longer suits you to do so then don't try and pretend it's because you're involved in some sort of 'noble rebellion'.
> 
>> On May 4, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Horse<horse at darkstar.uk.net>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha
>>> 
>>> The point you seem to be missing is that DMB's definition of intellect is the same as Pirsig's. So when he, correctly, accuses you of anti-intellectualism he is saying that the definition of intellect that you are railing against is the same definition that Pirsig is using!
>> 
>> Horse, how can you not see the point that the intellectualism that Marsha rails against, is the same intellectualism that Pirsig himself rails against?
> 
> John, how can you not see that you, Marsha, Bo etc. don't see or understand the intellectual level in the same way as Pirsig and that this is what distorts and inhibits your views and comments.
> 
>>> If you are not able or willing to understand intellect as Pirsig (and DMB) have described it then that's your problem but kindly stop with the demands for DMB to explain what he has already explained a zillion times
>> 
>> "kindly". What a laugh.
> 
> Yeah - it's called being polite. It's a quaint idea isn't it?I could have said 'please' instead of 'kindly' but when you understand English reasonably well, you understand that you can often use different words to convey the same meaning. But you're right - being polite with Marsha and you etc. is a laugh. Or, to use a word which conveys the same meaning, pointless. So I won't bother from now on.
> 
>> 
>>> and which you completely ignore every time he does so. If you want to continue to discuss subjects and objects as the entirety of the MoQ's intellectual level in the guise of reification then go and discuss it where there are people stupid enough to listen to and agree with what you are saying.
>> 
>> And here we find the moderator moderating just about as fairly as Rush Limbaugh "moderating" a presidential debate.
> 
> You're really not too bright are you John? The discussions on LS confirm that Marsha is doing exactly what I have said she's doing in my comments above - and what I've said is that that area of discussion ( i.e. [because you constantly need to have this explained to you] Bo's SALAMI [or whatever he calls it now]) is OFF LIMITS. I said this a long time ago and I mean it now. Got it?
> 
>> 
>>> I'm sure they'll be only too happy to tell you what bad people we are here on MD and how cruel and stupid we are for not letting you post 50 times a day about anything EXCEPT Pirsig's MoQ.
>> 
>> Pirsig's MoQ?  That is a dogmatic definition accessible to you and the cognoscenti, eh Mick?  If I were you, I'd pay more attention to Ron's point that this MoQ that you are so dogmatic about, evolved first and foremost as a TEACHING method. A process. An evolution toward betterness and not just another dogmatic religion competing for attention in a vast world of religions. As such the MoQ is always open to betterness. And not some kind of twenty commandments handed down from above, interpreted by dmb, moderated by Horse, and completely unintelligible to the stupid losers polluting your nice clean reality.
> 
> Wow! I'm so impressed that you know my slave name - even though I've never made any secret of it. Well done - I really am impressed! No, really I am. Incredibly impressed. Really!
> John you need to stop believing your own nonsense and get a very straightforward understanding of what MD is about.
> I'll type slowly so you can follow what I'm saying.
> 
> Robert Pirsig laid out the MoQ in his book Lila: An Inquiry into Morals
> He also laid the foundations for it in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
> Others, such as Ant and DMB have added to it and explained it well - i.e. they understand it.
> In order to progress and extend, in terms of the MoQ, first you need to understand what Pirsig has said.
> MD is a forum to discuss Robert Pirsigs MoQ.
> MD has a set of rules to ensure that this is what we do.
> What we are going to do is discuss Robert Pirsigs MoQ.
> 
> There. Do you understand now? Or do you require something a bit simpler?
> 
> I know you and and a number of your colleagues feel that Pirsig is too stupid to understand anything beyond being able to tie his own shoelaces and that this gives you the right to rubbish him and everything he's ever written because you and yours are so incredibly and devastating intelligent (and probably handsome too) but we, over here on this humble mailing list feel that Mr Pirsig and his writings are worth discussing and understanding.
> I do apologise if this doesn't happen to be in line with how you feel I should run MD but then again I don't care!
> 
>>> This forum is called moq_discuss because it's Pirsig's MoQ that we're here to discuss not Buddhism or solaqi or whatever other non-MoQ subjects you continually post about.
>>> Enough is enough - clear?
>>> 
>>> Horse
>> 
>> Oh very, very clear indeed. Fascism always makes itself known,whatever form it instantiates in
> 
> Thank you John, I haven't had anyone compare me to a fascist for ages and I feel that if this doesn't happen at least twice a year then I'm not doing my job properly. But next time I really think that you should include a reference to Jackboots as well as I'm so fond of that image.
> And the whip.
> Definitely the whip!!
> 
>> John the expectant
> 
> More like expectorant!
> 
> Toodle Pip old chap.
> You have a nice day y'all
> 
> Horse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
> 
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