[MD] Creative Freedom in Jazz

[David Harding]

Hi Dan,

Finally, I'm responding below.  No excuses.  My apologies for the hold up.

> Dan:
> Yes that seems right. It reminds me a bit of Napoleon Hill and his
> book Think and Grow Rich. Perception is everything. At the same time,
> however, I think we are deluding ourselves if we believe we can obtain
> perfection no matter how much we practice. As long as we continue
> responding to Dynamic Quality, one can always become better at
> whatever we rightly practice.

Indeed. I agree.

> Dan:
> 
> Yes the perfection of the art of swordsmanship... of any art for that
> matter... is not needed... it is a vehicle, nothing more... a journey
> without destination, pure experience. We need words to point the way
> to that which is left unsaid.

Indeed.  While reading the AHP transcript recently, I noticed how Pirsig acknowledges the contradiction that after one understands the MOQ, they should forget it. 

>>>> Yes, and as I am arguing that is only accomplished, on a regular basis, via 'mastery' of a particular static quality.
>>> 
>>> Dan:
>>> Again, perhaps one way of accomplishing it is through right practice.
>>> Mastery has little to do with it, however. It is the journey, not the
>>> destination.
>> 
>> I think the disagreement here is brought to light with the Gateless Gate analogy.  From a static point of view, DQ is the destination, so it is the journey which is important. But from a Dynamic Quality perspective, the destination is the source of all things including the journey, so the destination is the most important thing as you're 'it'.
>> 
>> However, while it's through Mastery that we can complete the sq journey and experience the source of all things does that mean static quality and the journey has disappeared and gone, once and for all?
>> 
>> No of course it doesn't, but it also doesn't mean that DQ and the mastery of static quality to achieve that DQ does not exist either..
> 
> Dan:
> 
> Dynamic Quality is always 'there' weaving the magic we call
> experience, our journey. I should think the gate-less gate analogy has
> to do with the belief that one can achieve enlightenment... that there
> is a path to follow, a gate through which one passes. Since there is
> no enlightenment, there is no gate, no destination... and once one
> comes to this realization they understand it has been nothing but a
> mirage of their own making which they have been seeking after.

So to be clear, are you suggesting there is no such thing as enlightenment?  Is enlightenment a mirage? Just a mistaken belief? I think enlightenment (or perfection) (or Dynamic Quality) does exist and is not merely a mistaken belief.  But there is more to life than just Dynamic Quality.  This is what the MOQ says and this is where it differs from Zen Buddhism.  

> Dan:
> We know Quality when we see it, and when we don't. Not all writing is
> quality writing. And what is the sense of mastering something of low
> quality? What did the man say who rebuilt Chicago after that cow
> kicked over the lantern? Make no small plans as they haven't the power
> to stir the soul.

Indeed. Life's so short. We're so lucky to be alive.

>>> We all know Quality when we see it. However, when I read my own
>>> writings I cannot seem to gauge rightfully whether or not it is
>>> good... sometimes I think it might be the best stuff I've ever
>>> written... other times I am quite sure it is complete and utter trash.
>>> Hopefully it falls somewhere in between.
>> 
>> Yeah.  You sound like Pirsig here.  I think he was of the same opinion that some days he'd happily get rid of a lot of what he'd written but he holds onto it for another day - just to be sure that it's not simply the mood that he was in..
> 
> Dan:
> They tell me that's what a good editor can do for a writer...

Yeah.  I'm more of an individualist myself...  

>> Rarely bored with anything? I encourage you, if you don't already, to simply sit on a cushion in a quiet room. Or better yet, go to a meditation retreat.  It - gets - so - boring.  But,  "In nothingness there is great working" : - )
> 
> Dan:
> I've attended a number of retreats at a Vipassana center not far from
> my home. I didn't find it boring however. But I've been daily engaged
> in mindful meditations and zazen for many years so perhaps that makes
> a difference... I have no way of knowing. I enjoy the quiet I find
> there... the non-involvement in the world of the everyday.
> 
> I must admit though, what I do find a tad boring is the inane tv shows
> I see my family watching when I visit their homes... I have difficulty
> sitting there watching it with them... but I hate to be rude... and
> the video games my grandchildren seem addicted to playing... I don't
> see any point to it. I've come to suspect it is a deficiency on my
> part... what am I not getting here?

Nothing. I'm much the same.  You're just not 'on the treadmill' so to speak.

> On the other hand, I spend a great deal of time writing. I am unsure
> there is any point to that either, although I do sell a book or two
> from time to time. I guess it is my nature to prefer being alone...
> and writing allows that, as does sitting quietly. It's the one thing
> I've got...

Cool. I respect that.

Well, not as much disagreement here (relative to the amount of time I put off responding) as I was expecting Dan.  The only point of contention in this post was whether you think enlightenment exists or is just a mistaken belief..

Thanks for you patience Dan,

-David.