[MD] belief

[MarshaV]

Andre,

I take the two-view perspective of the MoQ.  There is the MoQ as the intellectual/conceptual metaphysical system, with all its examples and supporting explanation, which was presented by RMP in 'LILA' and with interviews, text and letters; and there is the MoQ as Reality = Quality (Dynamic/static), or as I prefer to think of it:  Value(unpatterned/patterned).  


Marsha 





On Oct 28, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:

> Marsha to Joe:
> I have the MoQ as Reality = Quality(Dynamic/static). There is no additional 'something' called 'belief'.
> 
> Andre:
> Here Marsha clearly demonstrates her belief once again. She fails to understand that the MoQ is NOT Reality. There is absolutely nothing RATIONAL about her equation above. Rather she keeps on repeating her deep seated BELIEF (ie her own socially patterned conviction) that this is indeed the case. Hereby completely discarding Pirsig's own intellectual statment (see paraphrased below).
> 
> Ah, the social vs the intellectual...and we have seen plenty of examples of whose side Marsha barracks for. Marsha hates intellectuals. Yep, kill all them intellectual patterns, yep...kill them all.
> 
> For goodness sake Marsha you must have learnt something in all these years. But to learn something also involves the value of listening to others and maybe even being open to learning from them.
> But that is something you refuse to do.
> 
> You keep on repeating Bodvar's illusion(!!)by equating the MoQ with Reality. The MoQ is a static intellectual pattern of value. 'Quality' is NOT part of the MoQ. The MoQ uses the referent term 'DQ' to REFER to Quality...to point towards. If it were part of the MoQ it would become an intellectual chess piece, it would be raped, torn apart, ridiculed and whatever.... as you and some others here on this discuss keep on doing.
> 
> Pirsig is very adamant, clear and definite about this. It is important to keep all concepts away from Quality...keep them out of the equation. As soon as you do it is static.
> 
> For somebody who is trying to look at the MoQ through Buddhist eyes you are making a fool of yourself, the MoQ and the rich philosophical tradition called Buddhism, in all its variations.
> 
> You are not only confused...you really do not have a clue.
> 
> Now, I can anticipate your response. It'll be going something like 'la di da di da'.
> 
> If you are going to respond, answer this very straightforward, clear, no bull quaestion:
> 
> Do you believe that the MoQ=Reality?
> (this is not a misrepresentation of your statement above by the way. Just answer the question)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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