[MD] Creative Freedom

[MarshaV]

Hi Mark, 


On Sep 9, 2012, at 12:55 PM, 118 wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> I understand, I prefer to see patterns as creative.  As creations, incompleteness is a given.  When you claim incompleteness of what we know, this only says that we have more to create. 

Is this what it says to you?


> Just out of curiosity, you say knowledge is hypothetical as opposed to another alternative;  

I don't remember setting up such an opposition.   I wrote that I find it more useful to consider objects of knowledge (stuff in the encyclopedia) as 'static patterns of value' ("patterns") rather than 'truths'.  I think the term 'patterns' is a good representation.  Further I wrote that I prefer to think about patterns as hypothetical.  


> Does this mean that there are things that are not hypothetical?  If so, what are these things?  If not, then your term hypothetical seems meaningless.

Okay it seems meaningless to you.  


> Please give us some more meaning, by providing an example of the non- hypothetical that your awareness provides.  If everything is uncertain for you, even uncertainty, where do you start?  That the hypothetical is hypothetical, this could mean that the hypothetical is truth.  How do you resolve this paradox?

Not playing the liar's paradox game.  


Marsha 



> On Sep 8, 2012, at 4:30 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Sep 8, 2012, at 5:59 AM, David Harding wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> 
>>>> Oh my, do you mean that I might be interested in where value/morals (patterns) come from?  I am also interested in the nature of all patterns and what individual patterns value.  
>>> 
>>> Except Marsha, you are not interested in high quality intellectual patterns.  Truth? What is a rose by any other name? 
>>> 
>>> -David.
>> 
>> 
>> Except David, I am interested in metaphysics, the MoQ, which is the branch of philosophy that inquires into the nature of reality and that makes it, _on the theoretical level_, an intellectual pattern of value.  That I do not agree with your intellectual opinion of this or that, is no trouble for me; sorry it is for you.  That I do not concur with your priorities or evaluations is not a problem for me; sorry it is for you.  I find it a higher value and more useful to consider objects of knowledge (stuff in the encyclopedia) patterns rather than truths.  And I find it of higher value and more useful to consider patterns as hypothetical for reasons that once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal that the world is nothing but Value, then 'expanded rationality' occurs when an individual transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into the natural tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real or true.)  Unde
> rs
>> tanding static (patterned) value as hypothetical acknowledges the incompleteness of what we know and makes room for additional inquiry with new possibilities; it promotes an attitude of fearless curiosity: gumption.  It moves one away from thinking of entities as existing inherently and existing independent of consciousness.  
>> 
>> I have agreed that 'truth' is an intellectual static pattern of value: it can be found in an encyclopedia but there is no consensus on how it should be interpreted.  I don't find your definition of 'truth' -  an idea which represents experience beautifully - very useful or beautiful.  I find holding PATTERNS as hypothetical far more elegant.  
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
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